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[Historic Review Commission on July 23, 2026]

[00:00:06]

THAT ON. OH, SORRY. OKAY. I THOUGHT IT WAS GREEN FOR SOME REASON. OKAY. I'M GONNA CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT 6 P.M. ALRIGHT. FIRST UP, ANY COMMENTS ON NON-AGENDA ITEMS? I DON'T SEE ANYBODY HERE. SO MOVING TO THE REGULAR AGENDA, WHICH FIRST UP IS THE ELECTION OF CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR. AND. WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE SANDRA AS CHAIR. YEAH. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS? COME ON GIRLS, YOU GUYS SIT BACK IN THE COUNTY. YOU WANT TO. YEAH. NO.

OKAY, WELL, IF THERE'S NO MORE NOMINATIONS FOR CHAIR, I GUESS WE'LL TAKE A VOTE ON CHAIR.

NOPE. JUST KIDDING. I'LL SECOND. SORRY. MY BAD. IT'S BEEN A MINUTE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, NOW WE'LL VOTE. LET ME ENTER THE MEETING. YEAH. I'D LIKE TO ABSTAIN. DO IT. NO VOTE.

REMEMBER? ALL RIGHT. THAT PASSES, RIGHT? YEP. 6 TO 0. ALL RIGHT. DO WE HAVE SOMEBODY MISSING? YEAH. OKAY. GO AHEAD AND FINISH THE VICE CHAIR. OH, I WAS TRYING TO GET OUT OF IT.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO NEXT UP IS FOR VICE CHAIR. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY NOMINATIONS FOR THAT? I'LL NOMINATE ALLISON. WE JUST WATCHED CHAIRS THIS YEAR. OKAY. WE WANT TO GIVE YOU ALL AN OPPORTUNITY IF YOU WANT. YES. IF ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO DO IT, BY ALL MEANS. WE JUST BEEN HERE SO LONG, WE KNOW THAT SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT, SO WE'RE HAPPY TO DO IT IF NOBODY ELSE WANTS. I'LL SECOND. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S VOTE. THAT PASSED 6 TO 0. SANDRA. YOUR TURN. GOING TO OUR PRESENTATIONS. WE'LL GO TO NO NO PRESENTATIONS. EXCUSE ME.

WE'LL GO TO THE CONSENT AGENDA. CONSIDER AND ACT UPON THE APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM THE MARCH 26TH, 2026 HISTORIC REVIEW COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING. DO WE HAVE ANY IS THERE IS EVERYBODY LOOKED AT THOSE. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, REVISIONS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT? NO. ALL RIGHT. IF NOT, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN.

MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN. I SECOND. OKAY. MOTION PASSES SIX ZERO.

WHY ARE WE SAYING WHAT DOES IT SAY? ENTITLED TO VOTE BUT TOTAL NOT VOTED ONE. AND WHAT AM I MISSING? SO THE PERSON, THAT PERSON WHO'S ABSENT, DIDN'T WE DO HAVE SOMEBODY MISSING. OKAY.

YEAH. I'M SORRY I SAID I THOUGHT I SAID DO WE HAVE SOMEBODY MISSING? I THOUGHT SOMEBODY SAID NO. SO I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD SOMEBODY MISSING. SOMEBODY MISSING. ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL GO INTO THE WORK SESSION. WORK SESSION ONE HRC ORIENTATION PRESENTATION. MR. JASON HASKINS. THANK YOU MA'AM. OH, LOOK AT THAT ALREADY UP THERE. OKAY, SO, YOU KNOW, EVERY JULY, ONCE WE GET WHEN WE GET NEW MEMBERS. WELCOME. THANK YOU FOR SERVING THE CITY AND ITS CITIZENS. AND THEN JUST AS A LITTLE REFRESHER FOR OUR CURRENT MEMBERS, WE JUST TO GIVE A QUICK PRESENTATION ON LIKE THE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES AND THAT SORT OF THING OF THE MEMBERS OF THE HISTORIC REVIEW COMMISSION. THE HISTORIC REVIEW COMMISSION WAS CREATED IN 2013 JUST AS A LITTLE HISTORY LESSON. AND THE PURPOSE WAS FOR PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION, SUBSTANTIAL RENOVATIONS, REVISIONS TO THE ORDINANCE AND CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, LONG RANGE GOALS, WHICH WILL BE OUR NEXT WORK SESSION AND TALK ABOUT OR NOMINATE BUILDINGS FOR HISTORIC LANDMARKS. THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT THIS SAYS HERE. THAT'S A REHASH OF THAT. AND I'LL GO OVER EACH ONE OF THESE IN A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL COMING UP. SO NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT IS ALL GOVERNED BY SECTION 6.3 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE COVERS ALL STRUCTURES RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, HRC MAKES A

[00:05:01]

RECOMMENDATION FOR COUNCIL. AND IT'S ULTIMATELY ON UP TO COUNCIL TO ACTUALLY APPROVE THOSE. SUBSTANTIAL RENOVATIONS THAT'S LISTED HERE. YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WHAT'S LISTED HERE IS WHAT TRIGGERS WHAT'S CONSIDERED A SUBSTANTIAL RENOVATION. WE ALSO HAVE A LIST OF THINGS THAT AREN'T ON HERE THAT DON'T AREN'T CONSIDERED SUBSTANTIAL.

AND THOSE ARE STAFF LEVEL APPROVALS. THAT BEING SAID, STAFF DOES RESERVE THE RIGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE JUST NOT COMFORTABLE WITH IT WITH THAT RENOVATION OR, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME OTHER REASON TO HAVE THE BOARD AND COUNCIL CONSIDER IT, THEN WE RESERVE OUR RIGHT TO GO AHEAD AND BRING IT BEFORE YOU ALL. ORDINANCE AND REGULATIONS, AMENDMENTS.

THAT'S ANYTIME WE WANT TO CHANGE. CHAPTER 6.3. YOU KNOW, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME LAST YEAR. I'M ACTUALLY WORKING ON THAT AND MAKING SOME CHANGES. THE HRC AGAIN, MAKES A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL ON THAT. AND THEN A RECOMMENDED RECOMMEND DESIGNATION OF HISTORIC LANDMARKS. WE'VE ESTABLISHED A CRITERIA TO USE TO DETERMINE THAT. CHAPTER 211 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE OFFERS THE. THAT'S STATE LEVEL GUIDANCE ON HOW TO GO ABOUT THE HISTORIC LANDMARKS. AND THEN ONCE AGAIN, HRC MAKES A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL.

EVERYBODY DID RECEIVE. WHEN I SENT OUT THE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS. I THINK IT WAS. ONCE COUNCIL APPROVED, THE. THE ACTUAL FINAL LIST, WHICH ADDED MISS CLEVELAND TO THE COMMISSION. EVERYBODY GOT THE RULES AND I SEND THAT OUT USUALLY EVERY YEAR WITH THAT FIRST ONE. HEY, I'D LIKE TO WELCOME, YOU KNOW, Y'ALL TO HRC FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND ALL THAT DID. YOU DIDN'T GET IT. OKAY, I'LL MAKE SURE YOU GET IT. THAT'S WHY I ALWAYS ASK BECAUSE SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T. BUT ALL RIGHT, I'LL SEND IT OUT TO EVERYBODY. I'LL MAKE MYSELF A NOTE TO BE ABLE TO. I'LL DO THAT TOMORROW MORNING. SO ANYWAY, THOSE WERE WRITTEN BY HRC AND THEN THEY WERE APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL ON SEPTEMBER 2013. WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE A COUPLE OF CHANGES THAT WE NEED TO MAKE BECAUSE OF SOME THINGS THAT COUNCIL MADE, SOME JUST GENERAL CHANGES. IT HAS TO DO WITH THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS THAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR, AND I'LL BRING THOSE TO YOU PROBABLY NEXT, NEXT MONTH, I WOULD THINK. THEY'RE NOT HUGE.

YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM ARE JUST THINGS THAT WE JUST NEED TO TAKE CARE OF. AND THEY JUST NEED TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF, OF Y'ALL REVIEWING THEM AND PASSING THAT ON TO CITY COUNCIL FOR FINAL APPROVAL. SO THE GENERAL MEETING FORMAT, OBVIOUSLY, THE CHAIRMAN CALLS THE MEETING TO ORDER. THERE'S CITIZEN COMMENTS ON NON-AGENDA ITEMS BY TEXAS STATE LAW. EVERY OPEN MEETING WHICH THIS IS EVERY ANY CITIZEN OF WYLIE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME AND SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT WHATEVER THEY WANT. ABOUT THREE MINUTES. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ON THE AGENDA. IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HRC NECESSARILY. WE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE, BUT IT DOESN'T ALWAYS. IT DOESN'T BY STATE LAW. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. SO, AS MISS STOWE DID, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NOBODY IN THE AUDIENCE, WE STILL WANT TO GO AHEAD AND OPEN THAT UP, MAKE SURE AND THEN WE CLOSE IT BACK DOWN. CONSENT ITEM FOR HRC. THAT'S ALMOST ALWAYS JUST GOING TO BE THE MINUTES FOR SOME OF THE DIFFERENT BOARDS, P AND Z. AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, FOR P AND Z AND COUNCIL, THAT'S USUALLY PLATTS. THAT'S WHEN THE PROPERTY IS SUBDIVIDED OR PUT BACK INTO, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT LOTS. THOSE USUALLY GO ON CONSENT BECAUSE THEY'RE IT'S WHAT'S CALLED ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. AS LONG AS THEY'RE RIGHT, THEY HAVE TO BE APPROVED. THEN THERE'S REGULAR AGENDA ITEMS. THOSE ARE ANY OF THE ITEMS THAT YOU WILL HAVE CONSIDERATION. AND WE'LL GO OVER THOSE. AND THEN YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL AND I'LL GO OVER THAT. HOW THAT WORKS IN JUST A LITTLE BIT.

EXECUTIVE SESSION AS NEEDED. I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER HAD ONE ON HRC. WHAT COULD BE COVERED IN AN EXECUTIVE SESSION FOR HR? JUST GETTING TO THAT. OKAY. I MIGHT WANT TO PUT SOMETHING IN.

WELL, OKAY. ONE EXAMPLE WOULD BE THAT IF THE CITY WAS IN NEGOTIATION TO BUY SOME PROPERTY DOWNTOWN AND THERE WAS GOING TO BE CERTAIN THINGS DONE WITH IT. AND SAY THE EDC WAS INVOLVED, THEY MAY COME IN AND PULL YOU INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AND TALK ABOUT THAT SORT OF STUFF. IT'S NOT NECESSARY FOR EVEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT'S WHEN IT'S THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THAT WOULD BE ONE EXAMPLE OF WHY, HOW IT WOULD BE ALLOWED BY STATE LAW. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY ONE DAY, I CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT WAS IN EXECUTIVE SESSION, RIGHT? I. SO THE TWO THINGS THAT ARE MAINLY IS IT'S PROPERTY, THE, THE BUYING AND SELLING OF PROPERTY WHEN THE CITY IS INVOLVED AND OR PERSONNEL ISSUES. AND THE CITY ATTORNEY HAS TO BE AT

[00:10:01]

LEAST ON THE PHONE, BUT PREFERABLY IN PERSON FOR AN EXECUTIVE SESSION TO HAPPEN.

THAT'S JUST STATE LAW. OTHERWISE IT HAS TO BE EVERYTHING THAT WE DO HAS TO BE DISCUSSED AND OPEN, WHICH, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT SHOULD BE. AND THEN WORK SESSIONS, WHICH IS LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW AND WHAT WE'LL DO HERE IN A SECOND, AGAIN AS NEEDED. AND THEN WE ADJOURN. NOW GOING BACK TO THE ITEMS, THIS IS THE ITEM FORMAT. THE CHAIRMAN WILL DO AN INTRODUCTION. STAFF WILL GIVE A REPORT. WE'RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO GIVE YOU AS MUCH INFORMATION AS YOU CAN TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION THAT YOU CAN. THE APPLICANT, IF IN ATTENDANCE, CAN MAKE REMARKS, AND THE CITIZENS, ANY CITIZEN HERE CAN MAKE A COMMENT. OUR ITEMS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE PUBLIC HEARINGS. YOU'LL KNOW THAT IF YOU'VE EVER WATCHED PNC OR CITY COUNCIL. WHEN WE HAVE A ZONING CASE, WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY BANG THE GAVEL AND SAY WE'RE STARTING A PUBLIC HEARING. DOES ANYBODY HERE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT? YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT FOR YOUR REGULAR ITEMS. NOW, IF WE'RE DOING A ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, OF COURSE WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT PUBLIC HEARING, BUT OTHERWISE WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING.

BUT IF ANYBODY'S HERE THAT WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT, THEN, YOU KNOW, THE CHAIR SHOULD RECOGNIZE THEM AND GIVE THEM THEIR THREE MINUTES. THEN THERE'S COMMISSION DISCUSSION AND THEN THE MOTION YOU CAN APPROVE, APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS, DISAPPROVE OR CONTINUE. THE TWO BIG ONES THERE TO JUST TALK ABOUT FOR A SECOND WOULD BE APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS. YOU ARE WELL WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS THAT ANYTHING THAT'S WITHIN THE ZONING ORDINANCE YOU CAN ASK FOLKS TO CHANGE, EVEN IF IT'S NOT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, YOU CAN ASK.

YOU CAN'T FORCE THEM IF IT'S NOT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT YOU CAN STILL ALWAYS ASK IF IT'S WITHIN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, THEN BY ALL MEANS, WE WANT TO POINT THAT OUT.

HOPEFULLY STAFF HAS CAUGHT THOSE. BUT YOU KNOW, EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, SOMETHING IT MAY BE OPEN TO INTERPRETATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND THEN CONTINUE IS JUST A, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION WE NEED. SO WE WANT TO. COMMON TERM FOR IT IS TO TABLE IT. WE'RE GONNA TABLE THE ITEM. BUT THE OFFICIAL TERM IS WE'RE GOING TO PUT IT IN A CONTINUANCE. AND THEN IN RED AT THE BOTTOM TEXTING DURING A MEETING MAY AND CAN CONSTITUTE AS PUBLIC INFORMATION. PLEASE JUST STAY OFF YOUR PRIVATE DEVICES WHILE YOU'RE THERE.

THERE'S A CAMERA RIGHT THERE THAT'S POINTING AT ME RIGHT NOW. IT SOMETIMES CAN CATCH Y'ALL OR THE COMPANY THAT DOES THIS. YOU KNOW, IF I'M TALKING UP HERE FOR A LONG TIME, THEY'LL SWITCH TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. IT'S THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE SOMEBODY GETS UPSET, WHATEVER, OR JUST DOESN'T AGREE OR THINKS THAT YOU'RE COMMUNICATING OUTSIDE OF THE OPEN FORUM. THEY MAY SAY, HEY, I SAW THEM ON THEIR PHONE AND NOW THAT BECOMES PERSONAL, YOU KNOW? SO I WOULD JUST CAUTION YOU TO JUST SET IT DOWN AND LEAVE IT THERE UNTIL IT'S TIME TO GO. JUST SOME OTHER CONSIDERATIONS. PACKAGE DELIVERY, EVERYBODY. I'VE GOT YOUR EMAIL. MISS CLEVELAND, HAVE YOU CHANGED? HAVE YOU PROVIDED A I THINK YOU DID. YOU PROVIDED A HRC ONLY EMAIL, CORRECT? OKAY. YEAH. YOU DO NOT WANT TO HAVE YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL BECAUSE THEN AGAIN, THAT BECOMES PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST BY PROVIDING, YOU KNOW, THE SEPARATE EMAIL, THEN THAT'S THE ONLY EMAIL THAT WOULD EVER COME INTO PLAY SHOULD SOMEBODY EVER DO A PIR ATTENDANCE. THIS IS IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE APPOINTED TO THE BOARD. I THANK YOU FOR VOLUNTEERING AND SERVING THE CITIZENS AND CITY OF WYLIE. IF YOU DO MISS THREE MEETINGS IN A ROW, I HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK COUNCIL TO REMOVE PEOPLE. I DON'T DO THAT. I TRY TO AVOID IT. THAT'S ONLY I ONLY TIME I'VE EVER DONE IT IS WHEN I JUST DON'T HEAR FROM SOMEBODY. I JUST ASSUME THEY'RE GONE. IT HAS HAPPENED ON WELL, I'VE ONLY JUST RECENTLY BECOME THE STAFF LIAISON FOR HRC, BUT I'VE HAD OTHER BOARDS WHERE I'VE HAD TO DO IT JUST BECAUSE I JUST DON'T HEAR FROM SOMEBODY. NOW PEOPLE GET SICK, YOU KNOW, YOU GO ON VACATION, YOU GO ON VACATION, COME HOME AND GET SICK. YOU KNOW? I MEAN, THE THINGS HAPPEN AS LONG AS I HEAR FROM YOU, WE'RE OKAY. YOU KNOW, UNLESS IT BECOMES A LONG TERM ISSUE. BUT IF I DON'T HEAR FROM YOU FROM THREE MEETINGS, THEN I AM GOING TO TALK TO THE CITY SECRETARY AND SEE WHO THE NEXT PERSON IN LINE IS. QUORUMS AND OPEN MEETINGS. WE GOT TO HAVE FOUR PEOPLE. THIS IS SEVEN. YOU GOT TO HAVE A MAJORITY OF THE FOLKS THAT ARE APPOINTED TO THE BOARD IN SESSION IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY HAVE A MEETING. AND EVERY MEETING WE HAVE, THE DOORS HAVE TO STAY OPEN AND THE MICS WILL STAY ON WHENEVER YOU'RE TALKING, BECAUSE THIS IS A OPEN FORUM PRE MEETING QUESTIONS. WHEN YOU GET THE PACKET, WE ASK THAT YOU REVIEW IT. EVEN IF IT'S JUST BRIEFLY, YOU KNOW, JUST A QUICK OVERVIEW, YOU KNOW, BUT HOPEFULLY YOU GET A CHANCE TO REALLY LOOK AT IT BEFORE THE MEETING STARTS. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE, YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT ANY TIME. AND THE REASON WE ASK YOU TO DO THAT IS BECAUSE THAT GIVES US A CHANCE THAT IF I DON'T KNOW AN ANSWER RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, I CAN DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH AND I'LL GIVE YOU THE BEST INFORMATION YOU CAN TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION YOU CAN. SO SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T THINK ABOUT IT UNTIL WE'RE HERE AND THE APPLICANTS TALKING AND A CITIZEN MAKES A COMMENT AND THEN I SAY SOMETHING, AND THEN IT'S ALL OF A SUDDEN A QUESTION OCCURS TO YOU, OF COURSE, THAT THAT'S ALWAYS GOING TO HAPPEN.

BUT AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT AND YOU GO, YOU KNOW WHAT, I WONDER WHAT THAT IS. YOU KNOW, FEEL

[00:15:03]

FREE TO EMAIL ME AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME OR CALL MY OFFICE OPEN RECORDS, KIND OF BEAT THAT TO DEATH ALREADY. CONFLICT OF INTEREST. I CANNOT TELL YOU WHEN YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THAT IS UP FOR YOU TO DECIDE ON YOUR OWN. THAT BEING SAID, I WILL SAY SOMETHING. I WILL SAY THIS IF YOU HAVE A DIRECT MONETARY. BENEFIT FROM A POTENTIAL DECISION, THAT IS JUST A VERY OBVIOUS EXAMPLE. I'M JUST THROWING THAT OUT THERE AS AN EXAMPLE. OTHER, YOU KNOW, THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT CAN ALSO BE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, BUT I AM NOT ALLOWED TO. YOU DON'T COME TO ME AND GO, HEY, I'VE GOT BLANKETY BLANK, BLANK, BLANK. DO YOU THINK I HAVE A I'M GOING TO TELL YOU THAT'S YOUR DECISION, YOU KNOW, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THAT. SHOULD YOU DECIDE THAT YOU HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, YOU NEED TO FILL OUT THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST FORM WITH MISS FERNANDEZ, AND THEN YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE ROOM WHILE THAT ITEM IS BEING CONSIDERED. IF IT HAPPENS TO BE THE CHAIR, THEN THAT'S WHEN THE VICE CHAIR TAKES OVER FOR THAT. OTHER THAN THAT, YOU HAVE TO LEAVE BEFORE THE ITEMS EVEN INTRODUCED AND YOU HAVE TO STAY OUT UNTIL THE FINAL VOTE HAPPENS. AND YOU CAN EITHER GO IN THERE OR OUT INTO THE HALLWAY. SEEMS LIKE, REMEMBER, I THINK I HAD ONE TIME IN THE TEN YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE. I HAD ONE TIME I HAD TO STAND UP, TAKE OUT BECAUSE I THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH MY HOUSE. YES, EXACTLY. YEAH. THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY ANOTHER PERFECT EXAMPLE OF, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO VOTE ON YOUR OWN ITEM. SO AND THERE IS ALL THE CONTACT INFORMATION. RENEE IS NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN HR PER SE, ANYMORE. HOWEVER, SHE'S STILL HEAVILY INVOLVED IN DOWNTOWN, SO WE DECIDED TO LEAVE HER NAME ON THE PRESENTATION FOR RIGHT NOW. BUT SHE'S. SO IF YOU GOT ANY QUESTIONS AT ALL, AT ANY, ANY TIME, FEEL FREE TO CALL US OR EMAIL US AND WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO ACCOMMODATE YOU. IS THERE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THAT PARTICULAR ITEM? GOOD JOB. THANK YOU. WE'LL GO INTO WORK SESSION TWO PRESENTATION OF WORKING DRAFT OF THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINE. THANK YOU MA'AM. SO YOU ALL TALKED ABOUT. HEY, OTHER CITIES HAVE DONE THESE REALLY COOL GUIDEBOOKS.

YOU KNOW, CAN WE DO ONE? AND KEVIN AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING DILIGENTLY AS WE CAN ON JUST GETTING OTHER IDEAS TOGETHER, WHAT WE THOUGHT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE, WHAT WE THINK COULD HAPPEN, GETTING SOME OTHER QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND THAT SORT OF THING. AND SO I JUST WANTED TO THERE'S THREE THINGS THAT I KIND OF WANTED TO COVER TONIGHT. THE FIRST THING I'M GOING TO LET YOU KNOW IS THAT WE CANNOT USE THIS BOOK AS A AS AN OFFICIAL PART OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE WITH ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGES. I THINK I MENTIONED THAT WHERE LIKE, WE COULD JUST MAKE CHANGES JUST TO THIS, EVEN THOUGH IF IT WAS LIKE NOT OFFICIALLY IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT LEGALLY ATTACHED TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, IF YOU REMEMBER, I TRIED TO DESCRIBE THAT THE BEST I CAN. THE REASON IS, IS THAT THIS WILL BE IF IT'S ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL AS AN OFFICIAL PART OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, THEN IT BECOMES A ZONING CASE. AND STATE LAW IS VERY CLEAR THAT IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT ZONING RELATED, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. SO IF WE MISSPELL A WORD IN HERE AND WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT AND WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT WORD, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WHICH THAT'S FINE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO AVOID STUFF LIKE THAT. BUT SO THAT OPTION IS OFF THE TABLE. SO THEN THAT GIVES US TWO OTHER OPTIONS IS AND I NEED GUIDANCE ON THIS, THESE NEXT TWO THINGS. THE FIRST ONE IS, IS THIS GOING TO BE A GUIDE OR IS THIS GOING TO BE AN APPENDIX TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE? IF IT'S A GUIDE, WE CAN MAKE CHANGES TO IT. WE CAN DO ALL KINDS OF THINGS JUST WITHIN AT THIS, AT THIS LEVEL, AT THE HRC LEVEL, BUT IT BECOMES SUGGESTIONS. IT'S NOT ENFORCEABLE PER SE. IF WE DO THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND MAKE IT PART OF THAT, THEN IT DOES BECOME THIS IS LIKE OFFICIALLY ENFORCEABLE AND WOULD BECOME PART OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. IT'LL JUST BE, WE'LL HAVE TO GO THROUGH A LITTLE BIT MORE PROCEDURE IN ORDER TO MAKE THE CHANGES. AND THAT'S FINE TOO. I JUST NEED TO KNOW WHICH DIRECTION YOU ALL WANT TO GO. AND BASED ON THAT, THEN I CAN TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION. SO MY PREFERENCE IS ALWAYS, AND THIS IS WHY I BROUGHT THIS TO THE COMMISSION IN THE CITY, IS THAT I WANT SOMETHING TO HOLD THEM TO. I WANT SOMETHING BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS, WE'VE HAD THIS IN THE PAST WHERE WE SAY THINGS IT DOESN'T GET IN WRITING, AND THEN THE HOUSE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO. YES, MA'AM. AND SO I WANTED SOMETHING THAT WE COULD HAND THEM THAT THERE'S NO QUESTIONS. WHAT KIND OF WINDOWS, WHAT KIND

[00:20:02]

OF ARCHITECTURE? I MEAN, EVERYTHING FOR THAT VICTORIAN OR CRAFTSMAN OR WHATEVER YOU'RE BUILDING. THIS TELLS YOU EVERYTHING? YES, MA'AM. CANNOT COME BACK AND SAY, OH, WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW OR WHATEVER. RIGHT. I WANT SOMETHING THAT'S ENFORCEABLE. THAT'S MY TAKE. I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO SAY THAT. SO WHAT I WOULD ASK, WE'RE REALLY WASTING OUR TIME TO HAVE THIS. IF IT'S NOT ENFORCEABLE, I, I DON'T LIKE SUGGESTIONS. I WANT SOMETHING THAT I CAN GIVE YOU AND THAT'S THAT'S. SO ALL I NEED YOU TO DO IS PULL THE REST OF THE COMMISSION AND PLEASE AND SEE IF ANYBODY FEELS THAT WAY. PLEASE GIVE YOUR COMMENTS. OH, WELL, I THINK I AGREE WITH SANDRA, BUT I, I THINK THAT WE WOULD DEFINITELY TRY TO WORK ON IT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BEFORE WE TRY TO SOLIDIFY GET TO THAT IN JUST A SECOND. OKAY. YOU'RE YOU'RE GOING ALONG, I GOT YOU.

WHAT DO WE HAVE CURRENTLY THE ZONING ORDINANCE. OKAY. AND THE ZONING ORDINANCE HAS AND I'LL SHOW YOU AS WE LOOK AT THIS A LITTLE BIT FARTHER. YEAH. WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? MAYBE IT'LL HELP RIGHT NOW. SO LET'S GO TO THE SECOND PAGE. THIS IS LITERALLY A JUST AND THIS IS THE BIG PICTURE, ONE THAT KEY FEATURES IS LITERALLY ALMOST A WORD FOR WORD COMING OUT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE THAT THE LIST THAT WE ADOPTED LAST YEAR, OKAY, THAT'S WHAT WE STARTED WITH. AND THEN YOU'LL SEE ON THE NEXT PAGE, WE KIND OF EXPANDED A LITTLE BIT, AND WE'RE GOING TO EXPAND THAT EVEN MORE. AND I'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE. OKAY. BUT THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. YEAH. OKAY.

YEAH, YEAH. SO THE CURRENT ORDINANCE THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED IS, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO DO MAKE A CHANGE OR BUILD SOMETHING. THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW. SO THIS, AND I FORGET WHAT IT'S CALLED, THIS BOOKLET, WHAT'S GOING TO BE DIFFERENT? LIKE WHAT THIS WILL BE MORE DETAILED. OKAY. INSTEAD OF JUST OKAY, SO I'LL GET TO THIS NOW. SO YOU WHAT YOU SEE IS THE KEY FEATURES. WE DO NOT HAVE THE PICTURE IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE WE HAVE WHERE IT SAYS KEY FEATURES. IT SAYS FEDERAL STYLE HOUSING, IT GIVES THOSE DATES AND THEN FEDERAL HOUSES ARE SQUARE, RECTANGLE, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. THAT'S ALL IT SAYS FOR EACH ONE OF THE DIFFERENT STYLES THAT WE COVER IN THIS BOOK, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING AND MUCH MORE. AND I'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE. BUT NONE OF THAT IS IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. SO ALL YOU YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT JUST A THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERBAL AND ILLUSTRATIVE BREAKDOWN OF EACH ONE OF THOSE INDIVIDUAL CHARACTERISTICS. IN OTHER WORDS, IT DOESN'T JUST SAY WINDOWS. IT SAYS DETAILS OF WHATEVER ARCHITECTURE THAT IS. THAT'S WHAT THAT WINDOW HAS TO LOOK LIKE. OKAY. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WINDOW FITS THAT ARCHITECTURE HISTORICALLY. SO IT'S NOT JUST WINDOWS, BUT IT'S ARCHITECTURALLY ACCURATE WINDOWS. OKAY. SO LET ME ASK SOMETHING OF THE GROUP HERE. IS IT BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF VIEW OF LET'S GET PRESCRIPTIVE ENOUGH THAT WE CAN ENFORCE SOMETHING THAT HOLDS WATER, BUT IS IT A QUESTION OF LACK OF ENFORCEMENT OF CURRENT ORDINANCE, OR IS IT LACK OF CLARITY WITHIN THE ORDINANCE? OKAY, SO IT'S A LACK OF CLARITY THEN IT'S A LACK OF, OKAY, IT'S, IT'S, WE'RE NOT PRESCRIPTIVE ENOUGH IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE TO ENFORCE IT CORRECTLY. IT SOUNDS LIKE, OKAY, WELL, AND NOTHING IMPORTANT CONTEXT, AS WE'VE HAD PEOPLE COME UP HERE AND WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, PRESENTED HOUSES THEY WANT TO BUILD AND IT DOESN'T REALLY FOLLOW, I GUESS, THE SPIRIT OF WHAT WE'RE INTENDING. AND SO THIS WOULD, YOU KNOW, HELP ALLEVIATE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES.

I'M SURE, SANDRA, THIS WOULD TAKE OUT ANY QUESTION. NO DOUBTS. NO, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GUESS. THEY DON'T HAVE TO. CRAFTSMAN WINDOW DOESN'T HAVE PLASTIC STRIPS ON IT TO SEPARATE THE PANES. THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. ARCHITECTURALLY ACCURATE, NOT MODERN TWIST ON.

MY QUESTION WOULD BE IF, I GUESS, WHAT WOULD BE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO IN HOW WE GO ABOUT MAKING CHANGES, RIGHT? BECAUSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BECOME HISTORIC AS WE GO ALONG. AND SO HOW, HOW MUCH MORE IS IT GOING TO TAKE FOR US TO CHANGE IT IF WE MAKE IT SOMETHING ENFORCEABLE VERSUS SOMETHING THAT'S JUST A GUIDEBOOK? I ENVISION THAT THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK VERY SIMILAR. AND I'LL GO AHEAD AND TALK ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE THIS WAS GOING TO BE THE NEXT THING I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO TO ASK. AND THIS IS WILL FALL ON ALL OF YOU, BUT ESPECIALLY THE CHAIR AND THE VICE CHAIR IS IF THIS BOARD DECIDES THAT IT NEEDS TO BE ENFORCEABLE, THEN THAT'S GOING TO BECOME A ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT. AND THAT MEANS THAT I AM GOING TO DO A WORK SESSION FOR IN P AND Z AND COUNCIL AND SEE IF THEY WANT THE SAME THING. AND. WE'RE. YOU ALL WILL HAVE TO CHAMPION THAT. YOU KNOW, I'M ALL ON BOARD WITH THE IDEA OF DOING THIS. I THINK IT'S GREAT, BUT I HAVE A LOT OF THINGS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE

[00:25:05]

WANT ME TO DO THAT THEY THINK IS GREAT. AND SO I'M GOING TO NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE FOLKS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE, GIVING ME SOME DIRECTION ON WHERE DOES THIS FALL AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, GETTING IT DONE AND HOW MUCH DO THEY WANT TO SEE, YOU KNOW, AND USE THEIR GUIDANCE ALSO BECAUSE THEY'LL P AND Z IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON IT. AND COUNCIL IS ULTIMATELY GOING TO HAVE TO VOTE ON IT. AND IF NONE OF THEM ARE INTERESTED IN IT, I'M STILL PLANNING ON DOING IT BECAUSE AT A STAFF LEVEL, I AGREE WITH MISS STONE THAT IF NOTHING ELSE, THIS IS A HANDY THING TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY FOR WILEY. SO WE'RE GOING TO WORK ON IT. YOU KNOW, AS THE DIRECTOR OF THIS DEPARTMENT, I'VE ALREADY DECIDED WE'RE GOING TO WORK ON THIS. IT'S JUST HOW MUCH DO WE HAVE TO DO AND HOW QUICKLY DO WE HAVE TO DO IT? BASED ON THE GUIDANCE I GET FROM THE FOLKS WHO ULTIMATELY END UP MAKING THE DECISION, AND THAT'S WHAT WILL CHANGE. YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST IS WHERE IT FALLS INTO THE THE OVERALL CATEGORIES OF EVERYTHING, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. AND, AND LET ME SAY TO YOU THAT, AND LET ME SAY TOO, I DON'T JUST BRING THIS, THIS BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE. I BRING IT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THAT'S, THIS IS WHAT OUR JOB IS HERE TO DO THIS. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I TELL EVERYBODY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO SIT ON A BOARD AND COMMISSION AND HAVE TO RECOMMEND TO COUNCIL, KNOW YOUR COUNCIL, I KNOW MY COUNCIL, I KNOW THAT THEY WANT A TRULY ACCURATE HISTORIC DISTRICT. I'VE TALKED TO THEM AT LENGTH ABOUT IT AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT. SO IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT, THEN WHY WOULD WE SEND THEM ANYTHING ELSE? AND SO IN ORDER TO NOT SEND THEM ANYTHING ELSE, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S ACCURATE TO GIVE TO THE PEOPLE COMING BEFORE US TO BUILD OR CHANGE OR WHATEVER. AND FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND I AGREE WITH THE SPIRIT OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE HERE. FROM AN ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE. I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK THROUGH THE FRICTION POINTS, BECAUSE IF THIS BECOMES PART OF THE ORDINANCE AND WE KNOW THAT HISTORIC AREAS ARE LIVING, BREATHING THING, WHAT IS HISTORIC TODAY OR WHAT'S MODERN TODAY WILL EVENTUALLY BE HISTORIC TOMORROW. AND SO IF WE'RE TALKING LIKE, OKAY, EVERYTHING FROM 50 YEARS AGO IS CONSIDERED HISTORIC, THEN EVERYTHING THAT HITS THAT THRESHOLD IS GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE AN UPDATE TO THE ORDINANCE, WHICH IS GOING TO REQUIRE A FRICTION POINT FOR THIS WHOLE CYCLE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I DON'T SEE THIS AS A STATIC DOCUMENT, IS WHAT I'M GETTING AT, AND I KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO ADJUST AN ORDINANCE WITH OUR CHANGES. AND THAT PART'S NOT HARD. IT'S JUST A PROCESS. YEAH. AND THAT'S IT REALLY ISN'T. I MEAN, I HAVE TO BASICALLY PUT AN AD IN THE NEWSPAPER 30 DAYS BEFOREHAND, YOU KNOW, AND WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING, YOU KNOW, AND SO THAT IT IT'S PRETTY MINIMAL TO DO THAT. BUT YES, THERE WILL BE WELL, HOPEFULLY BY THE TIME THIS GETS DONE AND THEN THE FIRST UPDATE REALLY COMES, I'LL BE GONE. SO IT WON'T, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, BECAUSE YOU'RE, I MEAN, YOU'RE LOOKING AT, I MEAN, REALISTICALLY, WE'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT A YEAR BEFORE THIS GETS COMPLETED AND THEN THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS. AND THEN I CAN'T IMAGINE. I MEAN, I WOULD THINK WE WOULD PROBABLY REALLY LOOK AT IT LIKE EVERY FIVE YEARS AND GO, OKAY, IS THERE ANY HOME STYLES FROM 50 YEARS AGO THAT WE NEED TO ADD? BECAUSE WE GO ALL THE WAY UP TO RANCH STYLE IN THIS, YOU KNOW, AND SO I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO EVEN ADD 80S OR 90S, WE MAY NOT WANT TO, YOU KNOW, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BY THE TIME THAT COMES UP. SO IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A DIFFICULT THING TO DO. AND IF WE HAVE THIS ALREADY IN PLACE, THEN WE JUST TAKE THAT NEXT HOME STYLE AND WE'LL ADD OUR 3 OR 4 PAGES TO IT, YOU KNOW, AND SO IT'S A PROCESS, BUT IT'S NOT AN OVERLY DIFFICULT AND NOT A HUGELY TIME CONSUMING PROCESS. ONCE WE HAVE THE BASICS OR ONCE WE HAVE THE BASIC DOCUMENT IN PLACE, RIGHT? BECAUSE I AGREE WITH, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT IT'S NOT AS IT'S REALLY NOT LIKE THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO. THE DISH IS GOING TO BE FULL OF THE, THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLES THAT WE SET UP. RIGHT.

OR WHAT WE'VE GOT NOW, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT TOO MANY OPEN LOTS. AND THAT WOULD MEAN WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE SOME OLD HOMES BE APPROVED FOR DEMOLITION. NOW, WHILE I'M AROUND, WE'VE ALREADY DEMOLISHED SO MANY THAT WE DON'T HAVE MANY LEFT, RIGHT. AND SO LIKE YOU SAID, IT WOULD JUST BE IF THERE HAPPENED TO BE A RANCH STYLE OR A DIFFERENT STYLE THAT WAS BUILT. THEN IN 50 YEARS, WE COULD DEEM THAT AS LONG AS IT HAD MAINTAINED ITS ARCHITECTURAL ACCURACY. BECAUSE IF YOU GO TAKEN OUT THE THE HISTORIC PART OF A HOUSE, YOU CAN NO LONGER I DON'T CARE HOW OLD IT IS. YOU CAN'T DEEM IT HISTORIC. IF THERE'S NO HISTORIC ELEMENTS TO IT ANYMORE.

I JUST I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. SO I, I AGREE WITH HAVING SOMETHING ENFORCEABLE. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. BUT LIKE YOU SAID, I'M ALSO THINKING ABOUT THE POSSIBLE PAIN POINTS.

AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS ENFORCEABLE? WE DO THE PUBLIC HEARING, WE PUT THE NOTICE AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT AN APPLICANT IS ACTIVELY SEEKING. LIKE HOW MUCH MORE DOES THAT PUT ON THEM THAT THEY NOW HAVE TO WAIT? IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT A CHANGE THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE THAT MAYBE WE HADN'T THOUGHT THROUGH BEFORE, MAYBE. IF AN APPLICANT WANTS TO

[00:30:01]

DO SOMETHING THAT HAS TO WAIT FOR IT, LIKE IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT MAYBE WE HADN'T INCLUDED, MAYBE WE WE THOUGHT THAT WE WERE FULLY DETAILED, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS, THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING, RIGHT? SO IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT POSSIBLY WE MISS, WELL, THE HERE'S THE THING IS, I WOULD SAY THAT THE HRC COMMISSION, THE WAY I WOULD ADD THIS TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE IS THAT THE HRC COMMISSION HAS WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO RECOMMEND TO COUNCIL THINGS THAT ON AN INDIVIDUAL CASE BY CASE BASIS THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY EITHER IN HERE OR ARE MINOR VARIATIONS FROM WHAT'S IN HERE. OKAY. THAT WOULD THAT WOULD THAT WAS JUST ONE OF MY BIG YES QUESTIONS IS MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE NOT ESSENTIALLY TYING OUR OWN HANDS BY WANTING SOMETHING ENFORCEABLE. YES. SO, OKAY, THAT'S ALL MY QUESTIONS. YEAH.

THERE'S IF WE LEFT OFF, SOMETHING LIKE THAT WAS PART OF THE TRUE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO DO. I'M, I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT LIKE WHAT YOU MENTIONED, LIKE CHANGES IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO DO SOMETHING THAT WASN'T PART OF THE STYLE.

MY TAKE IS ALWAYS, IF YOU BUY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, YOU BETTER KNOW WHAT YOU'RE CAPABLE OF BUILDING AND NOT BEFORE YOU BUY THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY. WE HAD A LADY COME AND SHE WANTED TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT WASN'T APPROPRIATE FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND SHE GOT UPSET, WELL, BECAUSE SHE PROBABLY DIDN'T ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS BEFORE SHE BOUGHT THE LOT, I DON'T KNOW. OKAY. I DO LIKE THE I MEAN, I KNOW WE'VE WE'VE HAD TO MEET BEFORE WITH Y'ALL TO REDO STUFF. AND THERE'S, I FEEL LIKE THE GUIDEBOOK WAS VERY LIKE, WELL, YEAH, IT WAS SQUIRRELY. YOU JUST HAD TO READ A LOT, YOU KNOW, AND SO I, I DO LIKE, LIKE WHAT YOU'VE DONE, LIKE HOW CLEAR IT IS. LIKE, IT LOOKS VERY CLEAR. I THINK IT'S LAID OUT REALLY WELL. YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY VISUALS ARE GOOD. SO FROM SOMEBODY THAT WOULD REDO SOMETHING, I THINK IT'S GREAT TO HAVE SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE NOT IN-DEPTH. WELL, I GUESS IT'S IN DEPTH, BUT A LITTLE SOMETHING MORE CLEAR. YEAH, I GUESS MY ONLY QUESTION WOULD BE LIKE HOW, HOW DETAILED IS THIS GOING TO BE? YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE, YEAH, SO NAILS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, HOW DEEP ARE WE GOING? SO YEAH, NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT. SO THE NEXT PART I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, BECAUSE I HAD THREE KIND OF MAIN POINTS WAS, IS EVERYBODY OKAY? AND THE REASON WE ONLY HAVE TWO FULL, NOT EVEN THEY'RE NOT EVEN FULL PAGES DONE. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT ALL WE'RE GOING TO ADD TO THIS PARTICULAR THING. WE'RE GOING TO GET MORE INTO LIKE WHERE IT SAYS FANLIGHT DETAIL. WE'RE GOING TO BREAK THAT DOWN EVEN FARTHER TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE STUFF IN THERE, BUT JUST THE GENERAL LOOK AND FEEL, YOU KNOW, THAT BEFORE WE PUT A TON OF EFFORT INTO REALLY PUSHING THIS FARTHER, AND IF YOU ALL LIKE THE LOOK AND FEEL, THEN MY GOAL IS WE'RE GOING TO DO IS WE'RE GOING TO ADD A PAGE LIKE THIS TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE. THEN WE'LL DO THE WORK SESSIONS WITH P AND Z AND CITY COUNCIL. SO THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T DO THIS PART EVERY DAY. AND THAT WAY WE COULD EDUCATE THEM AT THE SAME TIME WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, HEY, DO WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD? WE'RE GOING TO. AND, BUT I DON'T WANT TO SPEND A TON OF STAFF TIME BEYOND THAT UNTIL WE GET A NOD FROM THEM THAT, YES, WE WANT TO GO AHEAD AND MAKE THIS OFFICIAL, YOU KNOW? YEAH, I THINK IT'S GREAT. I THINK IT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE HAVE JUST CLARIFIED. YES. AND I WILL SAY THAT AI IS A WONDERFUL THING NOW BECAUSE. OH, OH, THERE WE GO. SORRY. SO WHAT ABOUT I KNOW A LOT OF THIS SEEMS TO BE FOR VISUAL ESTHETICS, ALL OF THAT. BUT YOU KNOW, IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY, A TORNADO OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, FOR BUILDINGS DOWNTOWN, IS THIS GOING TO ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, GETTING THEM BACK TO AT LEAST WHERE IT'S LIVABLE OR THE BUILDING CODE WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT. OKAY. AND THEY'LL, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, ENCLOSE THE BUILDING, YOU KNOW, AND YOU GOT TO DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR HOUSE SAFE AND ALL OF THAT. AND THEN AS THEY RENOVATE IT AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THEN WE WOULD KIND OF, WE WOULD PUSH, YOU KNOW, TOWARDS THIS, YOU KNOW, HOW IT ORIGINALLY LOOKED. IS THAT OKAY? ONE MORE QUESTION.

YES, MA'AM. IN THE EVENT FOR SOME REASON THAT STAFF DECIDE THAT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY WANT TO MAKE ENFORCEABLE, WELL, WE'RE NOT DECIDING THAT Y'ALL ARE AND P AND Z IS AND COUNCIL IS. OKAY. SO BUT IF IF COUNCIL SAYS THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY NECESSARILY WANT, CAN WE STILL HAVE THIS AS A YES, I UNLESS THE CITY MANAGER TELLS ME OTHERWISE. I HAVE DECIDED, YOU KNOW, IT'S MY DEPARTMENT. I HAVE DECIDED THAT I TOTALLY AGREE WITH, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, MISS STONE WAS THE ONE THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE THING. BUT I AGREE THAT THIS IS A GOOD IDEA. IT'S IN SOME FORM OR FASHION. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAND SOMEBODY LIKE IF THEY'RE COMING IN LIKE, HEY, I'M BUILDING A HOUSE DOWNTOWN. OH, DO YOU KNOW WHAT STYLE YOU'RE

[00:35:02]

THINKING? YEAH, I'M THINKING ABOUT DOING A CRAFTSMAN. HERE YOU GO. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE YOUR MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS. AND SO I WANT TO DO THAT EVEN IF IT'S NOT ENFORCEABLE PER SE.

BECAUSE HERE'S THE BEAUTY OF IT, EVEN IF IT'S NOT DIRECTLY TIED TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, IT STILL COULD BE ENFORCEABLE BECAUSE YOU ALL HAVE THE RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL. IF YOU'RE NOT MEETING THE GUIDEBOOK, THEN YOU ALL CAN SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEET THE GUIDEBOOK. AND WE KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT WE'RE GOING TO RECOMMEND TO COUNCIL A DENIAL IF YOU DON'T DO THIS. AND BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS, THAT GIVES US SOMETHING TO LEAN ON. IF SOMEBODY GETS REALLY SQUIRRELY ABOUT IT, SO TO SPEAK, YOU KNOW, SO AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WANT TO DO ANYWAY. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW MUCH AND HOW QUICKLY THAT WILL HAPPEN BASED ON WHAT COUNCIL ULTIMATELY DECIDES ON ENFORCEABLE, YOU KNOW, DIRECT ENFORCEABILITY. AND, AND THIS IS PROBABLY A TACTICAL QUESTION, YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO GET TO IT IN THE PRESENTATION ON THE POINTS. HOW WILL THIS BE CONSUMED IF WE PUT IT INTO THE ORDINANCE WILL BE WILL BE A GUIDEBOOK THAT'S DELIVERED AND IT'S TIED. SO OUR ORDINANCE IS UNDER A PROGRAM CALLED MUNICODE.

YOU CAN GO IN THERE RIGHT NOW AND YOU CAN LOOK AT IT. THERE'S LIKE, I'VE GOT TO ACTUALLY TALK TO THE CITY SECRETARY BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN THERE IS LIKE BLACK AND WHITE DRAWINGS. AND SO I'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER WE CAN DO LIKE FULL COLOR KIND OF THINGS INSIDE THERE OR GO LOOK AT SOME OTHER I I'M, IT'S 2026. I HOPE TO GOD YOU CAN, BUT I ACTUALLY HAVEN'T PROVEN THAT TO MYSELF YET. SO, YOU KNOW, LIKE, BASED ON WHAT I'M HEARING TONIGHT, THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE THINGS I'M GOING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH HER ABOUT ANYWAY, BECAUSE I DO WANT TO DO THIS. AND WE CAN, IF IT'S. IF IT'S DECIDED THAT THIS ISN'T A DIRECT ATTACHMENT TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, THEN IT WILL BE A PDF ON OUR WEBSITE ON THE UNDER THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND WE'LL ALSO HAVE A FEW PAPER COPIES AT THE OFFICE. IF IT'S DETERMINED THAT IT'S GOING TO BE AN ACTUAL ENFORCEABLE PART OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, THEN WE WILL ADD IT TO MUNICODE, AND WE WILL JUST MAKE IT AN APPENDIX TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE. OKAY, SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE ORDINANCE AS WELL AS OUR STUFF. IT'S NOT LIKE WE. YEAH, BUT IT'S ALL ELECTRONIC. IT'S. YEAH. AND IT'S NOT EVEN A PDF. IT'S LITERALLY LIKE CLICKABLE HTML LINKS. IT'S REALLY EASY TO NAVIGATE. WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT IS IF WE COULD HAVE THIS AS AN EXTRACT TO SAY, OKAY, WE HAVE A COPY OF IT IN THE ORDINANCE. YES. WE ALSO HAVE A STANDALONE DOCUMENT. OH, SURE. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE CHANGEABLE, RIGHT? BUT THAT WAY IT'S A LITTLE EASIER TO CONSUME. SO I'M NOT GIVING THEM THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE TO TRY TO PARSE. RIGHT. NO, WE'LL HAVE EITHER A PDF. EITHER WAY, THERE'S GOING TO BE A PDF VERSION ONLINE AND A PRINTED COPY IN OUR OFFICE. OKAY. I THINK I HAD ASKED YOU ABOUT THIS BEFORE IF THERE'S ANYTHING. I FEEL LIKE WE, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE MORE INVOLVED IN THIS IF WE CAN, IF IT'S ALLOWED THAT WE IF THERE'S SOMETHING WE CAN DO TO HELP YOU AND THE ONE STAFF YOU HAVE DOING THIS, WHAT CAN WE HELP WITH? I MEAN, I KNOW I GAVE YOU EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE, BUT IF THERE'S MORE THAT YOU COULD NEED THAT I COULD FIND AND PROVIDE, I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT TOO. AND IT HELPS US BE MORE INVOLVED AS A PART OF PUTTING IT TOGETHER.

YEAH, I APPRECIATE IT. I THINK DEPENDING ON HOW THIS ALL LAYS DOWN, I THINK WE'VE WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME MESSING AROUND WITH, HOW DO WE WANT THIS TO LOOK? HOW DO WE THINK, YOU KNOW, THE LOOK AND FEEL AND HOW IS THE BEST WAY FOR US TO BUILD THIS THAT CONSIDERING, YOU KNOW, THE THREE OF US THAT ARE IN THE DEPARTMENT, GABY INCLUDED, WERE NOT ARTISTS AND ALL THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF HIT ON A, WE'VE ACTUALLY GOT HAD TO BUY A SUBSCRIPTION, A 30 DAY FREE TRIAL JUST TO GET THIS DONE, YOU KNOW, WHICH I'M TALKING ABOUT MAYBE GETTING A LITTLE BIT MORE. BUT, YOU KNOW, AI IS A GREAT THING FOR THIS SORT OF THING. SO AS OF RIGHT NOW, I THINK WE CAN HANDLE IT. IT'S JUST WHERE IT FALLS IN THE PRIORITY LIST. AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I DON'T THINK IT IS BECAUSE I DO. BUT, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST THING IS THE FOLKS FROM OUTSIDE, WHEN THE DEVELOPER WALKS IN THE DOOR, THEY'RE OUR CUSTOMER, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THE FIRST, THEY'RE FIRST IN LINE, YOU KNOW, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IT GOES FROM THERE BASED ON WHAT THE CITY MANAGER AND TELL DIRECTS ME TO DO, BASED ON WHAT CITY COUNCIL DIRECTS HIM TO DO, YOU KNOW, AND THAT SORT OF THING. IF WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE STARTING TO HAVE TOO MANY THINGS GOING ON AND I CAN'T GET TO IT, BY ALL MEANS, I MAY HIT YOU UP AND SAY, HEY, HERE IT IS. YOU KNOW, I'LL JUST SEND THE DOCUMENT OUT TO YOU ALL AND THEN EVERYBODY CAN CAN EDIT IT. I MEAN, I DON'T. I SAY THAT RIGHT NOW, BUT LET ME CHECK WITH THE CITY SECRETARY AND THE CITY ATTORNEY, JUST BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO END UP WHERE WE DON'T HAVE LIKE SOMEBODY SAYS, OH, WELL, YOU HAD A QUORUM BECAUSE YOU WERE WORKING ON IT TOGETHER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT I THINK IF I SEND IT OUT TO YOU INDIVIDUALLY AND YOU JUST DO INDIVIDUAL PARTS, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, I DON'T THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE. YEAH, BUT I DON'T WANT TO SAY FOR SURE WE CAN DO THAT WITHOUT DOUBLE CHECKING ON THAT,

[00:40:02]

BECAUSE I COULD. NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT, THERE COULD BE SOME LEGAL ISSUES THERE. I THINK PART OF THIS IS, AND I'M NOT A REAL PRIDEFUL PERSON, QUITE HONESTLY, BUT I'D LIKE TO SAY WE HAD SOME INPUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, BECAUSE WE DID BRING IT TO THE CITY TO, TO DO IT. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF THE TAKING OWNERSHIP OF IT AND BEING A PART OF PUTTING IT TOGETHER. THE OTHER THING TOO, I ASKED JASON ABOUT WAS, WELL, THIS IS PRETTY AND I SEE THE BROWN HOUSE. YES, WE WILL HAVE OUR HOMES WILL BE PICTURES.

WHATEVER HISTORIC HOME STYLES WE HAVE IN OUR TOWN NOW, THOSE WILL BE THE PICTURES THAT PEOPLE WILL SEE SO THAT THEY GET A GLIMPSE OF WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE TO. IT WON'T JUST BE THE BROWN HOUSE AND THEN STOCK PICTURES OF EVERYTHING. YEAH, WE LIKE WE HAVE A FEDERAL STYLE HOUSE DOWNTOWN. WE'RE GOING TO GO TAKE A PICTURE OF IT, ASSUMING THAT THEY'RE OKAY.

YOU KNOW, WE'LL TRY TO GET THE OWNER'S PERMISSION AND THEN WE'LL INCLUDE IT IN THE GUIDEBOOK. WE'RE STILL GOING TO USE OUR GENERATED IMAGES, YOU KNOW, TO KEEP SOME CONSISTENCY.

BUT THEN WE'RE GOING TO SAY, AND HERE'S AN EXAMPLE, A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE IN WYLIE AND EVERY ONE OF THESE, WHERE WE HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, WE CAN, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY IS OKAY WITH IT.

WE'RE GOING TO DEFINITELY DO THAT. I JUST HAPPEN TO KNOW A GREAT CRAFTSMAN YOU CAN TAKE A PICTURE OF. AND THEN ALSO THE ONE THING THAT'S NOT IN HERE, AND THE ONE THING THAT WASN'T BROUGHT UP IN THE ANAHEIM THING, AND I'M GIVING MYSELF SOME MORE WORK HERE, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK WE'RE GOING TO ADD IS COMMERCIAL STYLE BUILDINGS TO THIS, BECAUSE THE THE ZONING ORDINANCE ADDRESSES IT. BUT LIKE THE ANAHEIM AND WACO AND BERNIE AND A COUPLE OTHER ONES THAT WE LOOKED AT IN ORDER TO KIND OF JUST BORROW SOME IDEAS FROM NONE OF THEM. I THINK ONE HAD THE, THEY HAD THE, THEY FOCUSED SO MUCH ON THE RESIDENTIAL THAT THEY DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE COMMERCIAL. AND I THINK THAT WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF OPEN COMMERCIAL LOTS DOWNTOWN THAT'S GETTING. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BUILD ON. WE NEED TO GIVE THEM SOME, SOME, SOME. SO WE'RE GOING TO. WE'RE GOING TO ADD THAT TO TO THAT. I JUST GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW MANY DIFFERENT STYLES OR, YOU KNOW, DO WE JUST WANT TO STICK WITH THE STYLE THAT'S ON, YOU KNOW, BALLARD BETWEEN OAK AND MARBLE, YOU KNOW, THAT SORT OF THING. SO OKAY, SO EVERYBODY'S GENERALLY HAPPY WITH THE LOOK AND FEEL HOW WE'VE, WE'VE SET IT UP IN GENERAL. LIKE I SAID, THE NEXT TIME I GET WELL, THE NEXT THING I'M GOING TO DO THEN IS I'M GOING TO GET SCHEDULE WORK SESSIONS WITH P AND Z AND CITY COUNCIL. I WILL SEND THOSE OUT TO Y'ALL BECAUSE Y'ALL GOING TO HAVE TO CHAMPION THIS. I'VE GOT A LOT OF I, I THINK THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE, BUT IF YOU WANT IT TO BE AN OFFICIAL PART, Y'ALL ARE GOING TO HAVE TO COME TO THOSE AND SAY, HEY, WE REALLY WANT THIS TO HAPPEN THIS PARTICULAR WAY. OTHERWISE, I'M JUST GOING TO SHOW IT TO THEM AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING. SO THEN I WOULD ASK THAT ALL OF YOU PULL YOUR COUNCIL EMAIL GET, I MEAN, AND THEN WHAT WE'LL DO FOR THAT IS WE'LL HAVE A PAGE LIKE THIS FOR EACH, EACH HOUSE. I KNOW WE ONLY DID THE FIRST TWO JUST TO KIND OF GET EVERYBODY'S OPINION ON IT. WE'LL DO A PAGE LIKE THAT FOR ALL OF THEM. TRY TO ADD THE COMMERCIAL ONE IF WE CAN, BEFORE THEN, AND THEN ASSUMING, WELL, REGARDLESS OF WHICH WAY THAT ALL GOES, WE'LL ALSO WE'RE GOING TO BREAK THESE DOWN. AND SO THERE'LL PROBABLY BE 3 TO 4 PAGES, BUT NO MORE THAN FOUR FOR EACH STYLE. WE THINK WE CAN DO IT IN THAT, IN THAT AMOUNT OF PAGES. AND SO THE WHOLE THING SHOULDN'T BE BUT 35, 40 PAGES MAYBE, AND IT'S GOING TO BE MOSTLY PICTURES. SO I'M REALLY EXCITED TO SEE IT. I THINK Y'ALL DID A GOOD JOB. WELL THANK YOU. I LIKE IT TOOK A WHILE TO GET THE TRACTION GOING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE WANTED. THAT WAS WE STARTED THIS THING LIKE 3 OR 4 TIMES. LIKE, NO, I DON'T, I JUST DON'T LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, OR I DON'T LIKE HOW THIS LOOKS. AND THEN WE FINALLY KIND OF JUST FIGURED IT OUT. AND THEN ONCE WE DID THAT, IT WENT PRETTY QUICKLY. I WILL SAY THIS IS VERY RANDOM, BUT I REALLY LIKE THE FONT CHOICE. IT'S MY FAVORITE THING ABOUT THE WHOLE I WILL LET KEVIN KNOW HE CAN'T. HE'S NOT. HE'S OFF TODAY. SO I DIDN'T HAVE HIM COME TONIGHT, BUT I'LL LET HIM KNOW. SO YEAH. AND LIKE, LIKE YOU SAID, IT WON'T BE AS DETAILED AS THE NAILS. LIKE YEAH, NO, WE'RE NOT DOING NAILS TO USE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WE CAN'T ANYWAY. BUT ALSO THE ORDINANCE IS REALLY HARD TO GO IN AND READ AND FIND JUST HAPHAZARDLY. THERE'S SO MUCH INFORMATION. ALL THIS IS DOING IS ADDING MORE INFORMATION TO WHAT'S ALREADY IN THE ORDINANCE. THAT'S WHY I SAID THIS FIRST PAGE, THIS IS LITERALLY FROM THE ORDINANCE THAT WHERE THAT THE THE WORDING THEN WE JUST TOOK THAT WORDING, MADE A PICTURE OUT OF IT, PUT SOME HIGHLIGHTS IN IT. AND THEN SO THAT'S ALREADY KIND OF IN THE ORDINANCE. AND THIS IS THERE'S A VISUAL REPRESENTATION, THIS IS THE NEW PART. AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO BREAK THAT DOWN EVEN FURTHER ON ANOTHER PAGE. ALL RIGHT. I'VE GOT WHAT I NEED IN ORDER TO TRY TO MOVE AHEAD.

I WILL LET YOU ALL KNOW WHEN THOSE WORK SESSIONS WILL BE, BECAUSE THAT'LL BE OUR NEXT STEP. AND THEN ONCE WE GET A LITTLE FARTHER ALONG IN THAT, DEPENDING ON HOW THAT WORKS OUT.

LIKE I SAID, REGARDLESS, UNLESS I GET A FULL STOP FROM THE CITY MANAGER, WHICH I DON'T IMAGINE

[00:45:03]

HE'S GOING TO DO, THEN WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS REGARDLESS. AND, YOU KNOW, AND SO WE'LL KEEP YOU UP TO DATE AFTER THE FACT. THOSE WORK SESSIONS ON HOW THIS IS GOING REALISTICALLY, WHEN DO YOU THINK THIS WOULD BE IN FRONT OF THE PNC, LIKE FROM A WORK SESSION? IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN SOON? DO YOU THINK IT'S KIND OF DOWN RANGE FROM TODAY? IF I 23RD PROBABLY WILL BE THE SECOND MEETING IN AUGUST FOR P AND Z IN THE SECOND MEETING IN SEPTEMBER FOR CITY COUNCIL, I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M PRESENT FOR KIND OF SHOOTING FOR NOW THAT I'M THINKING ABOUT IT.

SECOND FOR P AND Z IN AUGUST, AND SECOND IN SEPTEMBER. SEPTEMBER FOR COUNCIL, FOR COUNCIL, BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO GIVE ME TIME NOW TO MAKE ANYTHING THAT IF P AND Z. HAS ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT TO ADD OR TALK ABOUT, AND IF P AND Z REALLY GOES IN DEPTH, I'M. I'M NOT SURE THEY WILL, I DON'T KNOW. BUT IF THEY GET REALLY IN DEPTH, THEN WE MAY HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER WORK SESSION BEFORE WE GO TO COUNCIL TO DISCUSS WHAT P AND Z TALKED ABOUT, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL IF WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE CHANGES. SO THEY HAVE TO BE RELATIVELY COMFORTABLE WITH IT. AND I WOULD RECOMMEND WATCHING IF YOU CAN WATCH FOR THAT MEETING AND ATTEND THAT MEETING, BECAUSE I WILL. SO THAT YOU YEAH, I NEED YOU ALL TO ASK QUESTIONS. Y'ALL WILL HAVE TO CHAMPION THIS. SO AS FAR AS MAKING IT AN OFFICIAL PART OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS? COMMENTS ANY MORE? I'M DONE, MISS STONE. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL RECONVENE INTO REGULAR SESSION. WE DON'T HAVE ANY EXECUTIVE SESSIONS. WE WILL RECONVENE INTO OPEN SESSION, AND I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. I MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. I'LL SECOND. ALL RIGHT. CAST YOUR VOTE. AND WELCOME TO OUR NEW MEMBER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.