[Historic Review Commission]
          [00:00:08]
          AT TIME WE'LL CALL TO ORDER THE WILEY HISTORIC REVIEW COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MARCH 28 2024. 
          THE TIME IS 601 UH, AT THIS TIME IF THERE'S ANY COMMENTS ON NON AGENDA ITEMS ANY COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANYTHING? OK? UH, WE LET THE I GUESS. LET THE RECORD SHOW THAT THERE'S NOT ANY COMMENTS ON NON AGENDA ITEMS. UH, NO PRESENTATIONS. WE'LL GO INTO THE CONSENT AGENDA. ADAM A CONSIDER AND ACT UPON THE APPROVAL OF THE DECEMBER 18TH 2023 MEETING MINUTES. BECAUSE EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK OVER THE MINUTES. OF THE DECEMBER 18TH MEETING. YOU HAVE ANY CORRECTIONS CHANGES QUESTIONS. IF NOT, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES. 
          OUR SECOND HAVE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE? ALL RIGHT. MOTION PASSED. WITH FOUR VOTING CORRECT TWO NOT PRESENT, OK? ALL RIGHT, AND I WILL GO INTO OUR WORK SESSION. WORK SESSION. ONE PROVIDE, UH, WE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION PROJECT UPDATE. RENEE YES. UM I ATTENDED THE E DC BOARD MEETING LAST WEEK, AND THEY GAVE AN UPDATE TO THEIR BOARD. AND I ASKED THEM IF I COULD SHARE IT WITH YOU. ALL SINCE BOTH THESE PROJECTS DID COME THROUGH YOU FOR A RECOMMENDATION. SO ON THE 104 SOUTH BALLARD, WHICH IS THE OLD PAWN SHOP, UM YOU GUYS APPROVE FOR IT TO BE DEMOLISHED BUT WANTED TO HAVE, UM, SOME KIND OF AND IT WAS THE WORD THE MURAL SAVE THE MURAL PRESERVED SO THE STAFF E DC STAFF. MET WITH THE ARTIST WHO I GUESS OVER THE YEARS HAS TOUCHED IT UP AND DID A FEW THINGS TO IT. AND KINDA. HIS THOUGHTS WERE IT'S TIME FOR THIS TO BE REPLACED, YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING TO KEEP IT UP. GET THE PAINT UP TO DATE AND EVERYTHING. SO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO THEY ARE ARE GOING TO DOCUMENT IT WITH PICTURES AND PHOTOS. UM EDC. I BELIEVE WE'LL BE WORKING WITH MAYBE THE DOWNTOWN MERCHANTS EVEN WITH OUR OFFICE. OUR, UM MARKETING TEAM. 
          TO TAKE THOSE PICTURES. MAYBE MAKE POSTCARDS SELL THEM, GIVE THEM AWAY OR OR THINGS LIKE THAT . SO THEY ARE, UM, IN THE PROCESS OF PRESERVING THAT PHOTO, UM, OR THAT THAT MURAL THEY HAVE NOT SET A DATE ON WHEN IT WOULD BE WILL BE DEMOLISHED YET. AND THEN ON THE HOUSE, UH, THE 300 NORTH. SECOND, THAT HOUSE HAS BEEN DEMOLISHED. UM I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY. THERE'S NOTHING YET ON THE BOOKS OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN THERE, BUT THE HOUSE IS GONE. SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE. 
          OK I. I DO THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO PRESERVE THOSE PICTURES OR POSTCARDS AND THINGS PUT IT IN THE WELCOME CENTER AND PEOPLE BUY POSTCARDS OR WHATEVER. YES, THAT'D BE A GOOD IDEA. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THERE WAS A STORY IN THE PAPER, TOO, ABOUT IT. AND THE ARTIST THAT DID IT. YEAH. ALL RIGHT, UH, WORK SESSION NUMBER TWO WORK SESSION TO DISCUSS A PROPOSED NEW RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 111 KER DRIVE. RENEE. NO, JASON. EXCUSE ME. THANK YOU. 
          UM SO IF YOU REMEMBER LAST YEAR, UM WE HAD OUR APPLICANT COME IN, AND SHE HAD PROPOSED TO BUILD A PROPERTY AT 111 KIEFER ROAD AND THE HR C AS A AS A WHOLE HAD RECOMMENDED APPROVAL. UM AND THEN WHEN IT WENT TO CITY COUNCIL, UM, THAT ULTIMATELY GOT DENIED. SO THE APPLICANT HAS MADE SOME CHANGES. SHE'S DECREASED THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE. SHE'S INCREASED THE SIZE OF THE FRONT PORCH. SHE'S MADE APPROPRIATE WINDOW TREATMENTS. UM AND DECREASE THE SIZE OF THE GARAGE AND BEFORE SHE GOES THROUGH THE PROCESS OF SUBMITTING AGAIN AND GOING THROUGH THAT HILL REVIEW PROCESS . SHE JUST WANTED TO GET HR CS INPUT. UM ON THE NEW DESIGN, AND 
          [00:05:02]
THAT DESIGN IS IN YOUR UM, PACKET AND MISS HERNANDEZ IS ALSO HERE THIS EVENING. UM IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL. SO THIS IS JUST AN INFORMATIONAL THING. THERE'S NO VOTE THIS EVENING. UM OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT'S JUST HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT WHAT? WHAT SHE HAS ON HER. OK I'LL GO AHEAD AND LET ANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS TALK. UM SO I LOOKED AT THE PLANS AND I THINK LIKE IT, IT LOOKS LIKE THE HOUSE WAS SLIGHTLY REDUCED BY SEVEN SQUARE FEET. THE PORCH WAS INCREASED BY THREE SQUARE FEET. 
          AND THEN THE GARAGE WAS OBVIOUSLY CUT IN HALF FROM A TWO CAR TO ONE CAR GARAGE. SO TO ME, I DON'T THINK THE HOUSE IS SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER SQUARE FOOTAGE. UM AND THEN ALSO, I FEEL LIKE THE FIRST TIME THIS CAME AROUND. A LOT OF AT LEAST MY RESERVATIONS ARE STILL THERE. 
          TO ME. IT DOESN'T TAKE OUT EVEN THE CRAFTSMAN STYLE OF IT. EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE ORDINANCE ? IT DOESN'T NOT EVERYTHING BUT A LARGE PART OF IT. IT DOESN'T MEET AND I KNOW THIS WAS BROUGHT UP. I BROUGHT IT UP. I THINK COUNCIL BROUGHT IT UP AND SO NOW YOU PUT BACK IN THE CRAFTSMAN, PART OF IT, AND, YEAH, I THINK THERE'S COULD BE, YOU KNOW OTHER THINGS THAT COULD BE ADDED IN BUT TO ME. THERE ARE STILL ISSUES WITH THIS HOUSE LIKE IS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ONE CAR GARAGE. 
          IS IT AN I KNOW IT'S NOT AN ORDINANCE THAT HAS TO BE A COVER GARAGE. BUT IS IT IN THE CITY ORDINANCE THAT WE IT HAS TO BE A TWO CAR COVER GARAGE JUST SAYS HAVE YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE TWO PARKING SPACES IN IN RESIDENCE ON A SINGLE FAMILY, THEY ARE ALLOWED TO BE TANDEM. OK BUT THEN THAT'S STILL IT'S STILL AN ATTACHED GARAGE, SO IT'S STILL THE SAME ISSUES AND I THINK MY WHOLE O OVERALL THING WITH THIS IS THAT BEING ON THIS BOARD. TO ME, IT'S BY PROVING HOUSES. IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE. LIKE OBVIOUSLY , THERE'S NEVER PROBABLY EVER GONNA BE A HOUSE THAT COMES IN. 
          THAT'S GONNA MATCH EVERYTHING. WHICH IS NOT. I THINK WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE TO ME IT AT LEAST TRY TO MEET THE SPIRIT OF IT. AND I FEEL LIKE TO ME. THIS HOUSE DOESN'T NEED IT BECAUSE LIKE THE GARAGE KEEPS BEING ATTACHED EVERY TIME IT'S PRESENTED, EVEN THOUGH IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE DETACHED AND SO LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT. IT'S HARD FOR ME BECAUSE THEY ALL ADD UP CUMULATIVE, CUMULATIVELY AND SO FOR ME. IT IT'S NOT SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO FEEL ANY DIFFERENT TOWARDS IT, BECAUSE WHAT I DON'T WANT IS TO APPROVE THESE ITEMS AND THEN IN FIVE YEARS IN 10 YEARS AND 50 YEARS, EVERYONE LOOKED BACK TO THESE HOUSES THAT WE APPROVED IN BE. WELL, THEY LOOK LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, UM AND THEN S. SO IF WE HAVE ORDINANCES TO ME. I FEEL WE SHOULD TRY TO STICK WITH THEM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. OK, SO BESIDES THE ATTACHED GARAGE COULD YOU LET ME KNOW JUST WHAT OTHER THINGS, AND THAT YOU FEEL LIKE IT'S NOT MEETING YOU HAVE ANYTHING IN SPECIFIC WELL, I MEAN, IF WE ARE GOING TO THE DESIGN OF IT TO ME, I THINK THE DESIGN LIKE THOUGH THE WINDOWS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. I KNOW THAT I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS BROUGHT UP IN R AND BD. BUT I COUNSEL BROUGHT IT UP AND THE WINDOWS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEY WERE BEFORE. AND SO IF THE ORDINANCES AS THEY ARE NOW, BEFORE WE DISCUSS ANY PROPOSED CHANGES, IT DOESN'T I DON'T THINK ALMOST ANY OF THEM THE PORCH IS NOT THE WAY THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE. ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE. I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE MY EXACT LIST, BUT THERE WAS PROBABLY FIVE OR SIX AND ANOTHER THING IS THE OUR ORDINANCE. SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT THE SIDEWALK IS SUPPOSED TO BE EXPANDED, EXPANDED TO 6 FT. 
          AND I KNOW WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT, AND I'M NOT. OBVIOUSLY I DON'T THINK THAT'S LIKE THE HOMEOWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY. BUT TO ME THAT'S NOT IN IN. IS THAT ON THERE? IS THAT GONNA BE DONE TOO? THERE'S THE DETACHED GARAGE . UM, THE PORCH. UM YEAH, THE WINDOWS I DON'T THINK ARE TRULY CRAFTSMEN. YOU SAW IN GLASS DOOR, BUT I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY ELSE HAVE THOUGHTS. AS UH, SO WHEN I LOOKED AT IT AGAIN , FIRST AND FOREMOST, STILL A, UH, AN ATTACHED GARAGE. UM THE WINDOWS, I I'M NOT SEEING ANY CHANGES IN THE WINDOWS, JASON FROM ONE PICTURE TO THE OTHER I. 
          I LOOKED AT THE OLD PACKET VERSUS THE CURRENT PACKET. I'M NOT SEEING ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE WINDOWS. UM, I SEE THAT THEY'VE ADDED OLD PICTURE WAS TWO POST. NO PICTURE. THERE'S THREE POSTS. 
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THREE POSTS TO ME LOOKS ALMOST LOPSIDED. THE TWO POSTS SEEMED MORE UH, EQUAL MORE. SYMMETRICAL IS THAT WHAT YOU CALL IT? SYMMETRICAL UH, FOR THREE POST. I FEEL LIKE IT'S MISSING THAT OUTER POST ON THE OTHER SIDE TO MAKE IT LOOK PROPER. UM BUT AGAIN, FIRST AND FOREMOST. UH STILL AN ATTACHED GARAGE. NO CHANGES TO THE WINDOWS. AND I HAD A QUESTION. DOES THE APPLICANT. DEEP THAT AGAIN, JUST NOT KNOWING THAT BECAUSE THE BRAND OF THE WINDOWS ARE AMERICAN CRAFTSMAN STYLE WINDOWS THAT IS SHE FEELING THAT THAT'S A CRAFTSMAN WINDOW BECAUSE IT THE TITLE OF THE WINDOW IS AMERICAN CRAFTSMAN. STAR, OK, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS NO CONFUSION THERE. BECAUSE UH, YOU KNOW WHEN IT GOT TO COUNCIL AND THEY TALKED ABOUT AND THEY SHOWED PICTURES OF THE TRAM AROUND THE WINDOWS AND HOW IT WAS TRIMMED OUT AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THESE LOOK LIKE JUST FLAT WINDOWS. YES THEY 6/6 THAT'S A START. BUT THEN IT NEEDS TO BE TRIMMED OUT AROUND THE WINDOW AND NOT JUST A FLAT WINDOW AGAINST THE SIDING. THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY TO MAKING IT LOOK LIKE A CRAFTSMAN WINDOW OR OR BEING A CRAFTSMAN WINDOW. UM I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS TALKED ABOUT IN YOUR IN THE MEETING BEFORE OR WITH COUNSEL, BUT, UM YOU KNOW, GOT A SLIDING GLASS DOOR. THAT'S NOT INDICATIVE OF A CRAFTSMAN IF YOU WANT IF YOU WANT A DOUBLE DOOR, UH, A DOUBLE FRENCH CRAFTSMAN DOOR WOULD WORK IF SHE IF THAT'S THE KIND OF DOOR THEY'RE WARNING, THERE IS SOMETHING BIG ENOUGH TO OPEN UP WHERE YOU COULD GET THINGS IN AND OUT OR A PATIO DOOR OR THINGS LIKE THAT. THAT WOULD THAT WOULD WORK. UH, FOR ME BECAUSE I'M JUST SPEAKING FOR ME, UM CAN I ALSO ADD THAT IT'S IN OUR CURRENT ORDINANCES? IT'S SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT HOUSES ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE SOME KIND OF, LIKE SKIRTING, OR, UM, LIKE PLANT PLANTS AROUND TO HIDE THE FOUNDATION. WHICH THIS ONE DOESN'T HAVE EITHER OF THOSE THAT TYPICAL OF A PERSON. I DON'T. I DON'T KNOW. BUT TO ME IF IT'S NOT TYPICAL, THEN PLANTING BECAUSE WHAT I DON'T LIKE IS THE SLAB FOUNDATION. IT REALLY KIND OF IN THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT. AGAIN I'M NOT GONNA SAY THE WORD AT ALL. BUT, UM IT'S LIKE THEY HAVE LIKE THAT. 
          THAT SEPARATION TRIM AROUND AND THEN GOES DOWN. THERE'S THAT WHAT APPEARS LIKE SKIRTING LIKE YOUR MOBILE HOMES HAVE, BUT IT'S JUST A SEPARATION. UH I. I THINK THAT WAS JUST AN ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT OF A CRAFTSMAN. I THINK, UM AND THAT'S WHY YOU'LL SEE IT ON ALL OF THEM. YOU SEE DIFFERENT MATERIALS, BUT STILL THAT SEPARATION. UM. SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE EITHER AGAIN. I UNDERSTAND SHE'S WANTING A BIG HOUSE ON A SMALL LOT. AND SO THAT THAT UNTIL UNTIL WE ADDRESS A SMALLER HOUSE ON THIS LOT. THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE ROOM FOR A DETACHED GARAGE, AND I THINK THAT DETACHED GARAGE IS GONNA STOP IT EVERY TIME. FOR ME ANYWAY. AND I. I BELIEVE THAT WAS ONE OF COUNCIL'S BIGGEST THINGS, TOO. WHICH ACTUALLY, I DO WANT TO BREAK UP BECAUSE I HAVE WHAT THEY THEY SAID. AND ONE OF THEM, COUNCILMAN MOLIK, WHO SAY HIS NAME MALI, MALI, MALI. MALI OK, UM, HE ASKED IF A BEDROOM COULD BE CONVERTED. OH NO. UM THE GARAGE COULD BE CONVERTED TO A BEDROOM. AND THEN YOU REPLIED THAT THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES TWO ENCLOSED PARKING SPACES. SO DOES IT INCLUDE, OR DOES IT REQUIRE TO ENCLOSED PARKING SPACES BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WAS SAID AT COUNCIL. SO I KNOW OUR ORDINANCES DON'T STATE THAT BECAUSE THERE'S NO IT JUST SAYS ACCESSORY BUILDINGS HAVE TO BE DETACHED. IT DOESN'T GIVE A REQUIREMENT FOR THE AMOUNT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO I JUST WANTED LIKE WHICH ONE IS TO ME. WHICH ONE IS THE PREVAILING ONE ON TOP IS I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING THE ORDINANCE SAYS THAT THERE'S TWO PARKING SPACES AND 
          [00:15:07]
THEN NORMALLY OUTSIDE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE REQUIRE A 500 SQUARE FOOT GARAGE, WHICH IS TWO PART WHICH WOULD FIT TWO CARS. SO OH, OK, BUT THEN, FOR OUR JUST GENERALLY KIND OF ASSUME THAT IT WOULD BE A TWO CAR GARAGE. BUT I'LL HAVE TO LOOK ON THE DETAIL TO MAKE SURE THAT IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT. YOU COULDN'T HAVE A SMALLER GARAGE. WHAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE NOW, IT SAYS FOR PARKING FOR RESIDENTIAL USES, IS ON SITE AND SHALL PROVIDE A MINIMUM OF TWO PARKING SPACES. THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A GAR IN A GARAGE. IT JUST TWO PARKING SPACE. I THINK THAT'S GOOD, BUT EVERY NEW HOME HAS TO HAVE OUTSIDE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT HAS TO HAVE A 500 SQUARE FOOT GARAGE. THAT'S WHERE I PROBABLY ANSWERED. OK, SO THIS TWO PARKING SPACES DOESN'T HAVE TO BE COVERED. OK? YEAH AND THE OTHER THING THAT AND I'LL SAY IT HERE. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE, BUT WE'LL REALLY TALK IT ABOUT IT MORE IN THE, UH, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE AMENDMENTS TO THE ORDINANCE. THERE'S STILL A WHOLE DISCUSSION. I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE HAD ON GARAGES IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. YES NEEDS TO BE DETACHED IS A GARAGE, AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE WHEN IT'S ON A HOUSE. WELL I OK, I WORK IN THE LEGAL FIELD. I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY, BUT I WILL SAY IN A COURT OF LAW THERE'S I COULD NOT IMAGINE YOU WOULD EVER GET SOMEONE TO SAY THAT NEXT THAT IS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. AND SO IF YOU IF OR, IF WE COLLECTIVELY WANT THAT IT IS NOT. IT'S I MEAN , IT IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. IT DOES NOT BELONG TO THE HOUSE. 
          BECAUSE ALL YOU NEED IS A HOUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE. IN CLOSE PARKING SPACES, SO I JUST FEEL LIKE IF YOU'RE GOING DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY AND LIKE READING IT, ACCORDING TO WHAT THE LAW WOULD SAY THAT WOULD NOT BE THE CASE AND WE'D HAVE TO REWARD THAT AND IT DOES NEED TO BE REWORDED BECAUSE THE WAY THAT THAT SECTION IN THE HR C ORDINANCE. FROM WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN, WAS BASED ON HOW THE ORDINANCE WAS WRITTEN FOR REGULAR OR ANY OTHER SINGLE FAMILY HOME BECAUSE IT USED TO SAY TO ENCLOSED PARKING SPACES. AND YOU KNOW I WAS HERE, SO I'LL TAKE THE BLAME WHEN WE CHANGE THAT, TO JUST SAY TWO PARKING SPACES. WE DIDN'T GO BACK TO THE ACCESSORY SECTION PART AND REALLY CLARIFY THAT SO YES, THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE NEED TO REALLY CLEAN UP AND YOU KNOW, I'M I'M NOT GONNA ARGUE FOR IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER BECAUSE TO ME FOR THIS BOARD WHAT IT REALLY WILL DEPEND ON IS WHAT STYLE OF HOUSE IS IT? WELL AND I'M ALWAYS GONNA ARGUE FOR ARCHITECTURE AND I MUST SAY HISTORIC ARCHITECTURE AND THE AND HISTORICAL ARCHITECTURE. HOW A CRAFTSMAN WAS BUILT. HOW UM, I KNOW WE USE CRAFTSMAN A LOT BECAUSE THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT PEOPLE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE. BUT ANY OF THEM IS FOR A VICTORIAN OR WHATEVER, UM GARAGES ARE SEPARATE. NOW IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT OUT IN A SUBDIVISION THEY DON'T BUILD YOUR MODERN CRAFTSMEN WITH AN ATTACHED GARAGE. THEY CAN DO THAT ALL THEY WANT TO, I HEAR, BUT I'M LOOKING AT A HISTORIC DISTRICT TRYING TO CREATE FULFILL HISTORIC AND SO I'M ALWAYS GOING TO A NEW BUILD, NEEDS A DETACHED GARAGE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. 
          DISTRICT. BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO DO A CRAFTSMAN. YOU'RE GOING TO DO A VICTORIAN. YOU'RE GOING TO DO A ROW HOUSE. YOU'RE GOING TO DO THOSE HOUSES AND ALL THOSE HOUSES HAD DETACHED COULD THEY HAVE BEEN ADDED LATER? LACK YOUR VICTORIAN THAT HE HAD DOWN IN GALVESTON. IT WAS ADDED LATER AFTER THE STRUCTURE WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT. WHEN THEY PUT THOSE HOUSES ON STILTS. I RESEARCHED THAT HOUSE. IT WAS PUT LATER WHEN THERE WAS ALL THAT ROOM GIVEN UNDER THE HOUSE, AND THEY GO WELL, WHY NOT? YEAH, WHY NOT? THEIR HISTORIC DISTRICT, I GUESS ALLOWED IT AND SO THAT THEY DID IT. BUT FOR ME. I'M ALWAYS GONNA ARGUE FOR WHAT DID THE HISTORICAL ARCHITECTURE HAVE? AND THAT'S WHAT I WE NEED FOR THAT STYLE OF HOUSE, RIGHT? UM FIRST AND FOREMOST, BECAUSE I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY IN 50 YEARS THAT WE'VE GOT THIS MANY MORE CONTRIBUTING. STRUCTURES I DON'T WANNA SAY WE'VE GOT THIS MANY MORE NON CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES. AND TO ME. IF IT'S CONTRIBUTING, IT'S GOT TO HAVE ALL THE ELEMENTS TO IT. THAT'S JUST FOR ME. SEE CAN I VOTE FOR A SECOND? I DID I. I FEEL LIKE TO ME THE GARAGE WOULDN'T BE SUCH A BIG DEAL, IF LIKE IT WAS VERY CLASSIC CRAFTSMAN AND ALL THE OTHER WAYS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE JUST MORE CRAFTSMAN STYLE WINDOWS, MAYBE LARGER OVERHANG EAVES OR WHATEVER YOU CALL THEM JUST IN OTHER WAYS. 
          BECAUSE I THEN I THINK THE GARAGE WOULDN'T BE THAT BIG OF A DEAL FOR ME, BUT BECAUSE IT'S 
          [00:20:02]
SORT OF CRAFTSMAN. THEN IT'S LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE BECOMES. MORE ADDING TO IT WANTS NOT CRAFTSMAN. IF THAT MAKES SENSE. IT JUST KIND OF TEARS. THE SCALE A LITTLE BIT. UM YEAH, SO FOR ME, I JUST NEED MORE OF IT TO BE CRAFTSMEN. TO ACCEPT IT SO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN SANDRA. 
          AND AT THE END OF THE DAY. WE WE ARE ALL GONNA GIVE OUR OPINION TO COUNSEL RIGHT? WHAT IS COUNCIL LOOK FOR, THOUGH I, I THINK A REALLY IMPORTANT THING IS TO KNOW WHAT YOUR COUNSEL IS LOOKING FOR, TOO. AND I THINK IF THEY'RE GONNA DO A CONCESSION, THEY'RE GONNA WANT TO CONCEDE ON HUB A YARD THIS PERSON GETS VERSUS WHETHER THE STRUCTURE IS CONFORMING OR NON CONFORMING. I THINK THEY'D RATHER GIVEN IN THAT AREA THAN AN ATTACHED GARAGE VERSUS A DETACHED GARAGE. 
          THAT'S WHY I'M HEARING FROM HIM. SO I ALWAYS TRY TO THINK ABOUT I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR WHAT I THINK. BUT I'M GONNA THANK IS MY CO GONNA LIKE THIS, TOO. BECAUSE IF NOT, I'M JUST SPINNING MY WHEELS. WHAT ARE Y'ALL THOUGHTS? I'M INTERESTED TO KNOW. YEAH. WELL I LIKE THAT. THEY PUT THE GARAGE FROM THE FRONT CORNER TO THE REAR CORNER. SO IT'S NOT AS VISIBLE SO I CAN APPRECIATE THAT THERE WAS, YOU KNOW AN ACCOMMODATION MADE TO MAKE IT NOT AS OBVIOUS FROM THE STREET. 
          UM. I THINK THE ONLY WAY THAT THEY COULD DETACH THE GARAGE WOULD BE TO SHAVE A FEW FEET OFF THE HOUSE. AND POSSIBLY DO A UH, YOU KNOW, AN OVERHANG GOING FROM THE HOUSE TO THE GARAGE. YOU CAN'T MAKE THE GARAGE ANY SMALLER. BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FIT THE CAR IN. YOU CAN'T MOVE IT BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT ON THE BUILD LINE. UH, SO THE ONLY OPTION WOULD BE TO CHANGE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE HOUSE FOR THE HOUSE IN BY A COUPLE OF FEET. I THINK THERE IS A, UM I HAVE TO LOOK, BUT I THINK THERE WOULD BE SOME ROOM TO ACTUALLY MOVE THE ENTIRE HOUSE. TO THE EAST. AND PUT SOME SEPARATION THERE. THERE'S THE SETBACK IS MIGHT BE OVER 25 AND SOME OF THE OTHER HOUSES OVER IN THAT AREA ARE LESS THAN 25. SO YOU GET LESS THAN WHAT A NORMAL FRONT YARD WOULD BE. IT'S KIND OF AT AN ANGLE, THOUGH, SO WHEN YOU STRAIGHTEN IT OUT, IT MIGHT BE CLOSER TO 25. SO IT MIGHT. THERE MIGHT BE THAT POSSIBILITY, BUT I CAN WE CAN WORK ON THAT PART. I WOULD. I THINK THAT WOULD MAYBE SATISFY EVERYBODY. IF THE HOUSE COULD BE SHIFTED JUST A LITTLE BIT. IN ORDER TO DETACH THE GARAGE. AND THEN YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE ISN'T LOSING SQUARE FOOTAGE. UM I MEAN, THE MASTER BEDROOM RIGHT NOW. THE WAY THE HOUSE HAS LAID OUT. THE MASTER BEDROOM IS AT THE BACK. AND IT WOULD HAVE TO, YOU KNOW CUT DOWN TO 10 FT, WHICH IS KIND OF SMALL FOR A MASTER BEDROOM. UM BUT IF YOU COULD SHIP THE HOUSE AND LEAVE THE LAYOUT THE SAME I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A WIN WIN FOR EVERYBODY. 
          I MEAN, AGAIN. LISTENING. TO WELL, I THINK IT WAS OBVIOUS. THIS COMMISSION APPROVED IT LAST TIME AND COUNCIL DENIED IT. WHAT THE COUNCIL DENY IT FOR WHAT WERE THEIR POINTS. AND HAVE THOSE POINTS CHANGED. THE GARAGE IS STILL ATTACHED. THE WINDOWS HAVEN'T CHANGED. I DON'T REMEMBER. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT ELSE I SAID? IN MY OPINION? IT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU ALL MENTIONED. BECAUSE YEAH, THEY WERE THERE. YEAH, I SAID IT DIDN'T REALLY LOOK LIKE LISTEN TO IT AGAIN SO I COULD REMEMBER WHAT THEY SAID. NOT ENOUGH CRAFTSMAN ELEMENTS. UH, THE WINDOWS. NOT CRAFTSMAN STYLE WINDOWS. NOT ENOUGH CRAFTSMAN STYLE WINDOW. UH, THE ATTACHED GARAGE. I JUST THINK WAS THE BI A BIG THING AS WELL. UH, AND AGAIN, I. I CAN APPRECIATE AND 
          [00:25:04]
UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT WE WANT A BIGGER HOUSE. BUT IN ORDER TO HAVE THE SIZE HOUSE. THAT'S JUST NOT A LOT FOR THAT SIZE HOUSE TO HAVE ALL THE REQUIREMENTS THAT IT NEEDS. AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS TRYING TO BE MEAN ABOUT IT. IT'S JUST THAT LOTS OF SMALL LOT AND IT NEEDS A SMALLER HOUSE, UH SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE EXACTLY THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE NEEDED. WHAT OK? YEAH. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? JUST KIND OF LOOKING AT THIS. NOT SURE WITH WITH THE ORDINANCE. MOVING THE HOUSE. IS THERE STILL ENOUGH ROOM? FOR WHAT WE REQUIRE BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE GARAGE TO STILL HAVE A DETACHED GARAGE. I DON'T I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ENOUGH ROOM TO HAVE A DETACHED GARAGE. IS THE REQUIREMENT BETWEEN THE TWO STRUCTURES IN TERMS OF FOOTAGE. MHM CODE OR THE BUILDING. THE ZONING ORDINANCE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING SPECIFICALLY, BUT IN THE BUILDING CODE. NORMALLY THAT THAT IS 5 FT. CAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE ROW HOUSE AT BALLARD AND BROWN THAT THAT IS A DETACHED GARAGE. I BET THERE'S NO I MEAN, THERE'S 2 FT, LIKE TWO STEPS. 
          YOU KNOW IT GOT A LITTLE PAD BETWEEN THE TWO AND THEN THE CRAFTSMAN AT THE CORNER. UH IS IT JACKSON AND OAK? THAT LOOKS A LOT LIKE MINE. BUT IT'S GREEN. I THINK. THEY'VE GOT A, UH IT'S NOT AN ENCLOSED GARAGE, BUT IT'S A GRUDGE KIND OF STRUCTURE WITH A ROOF. UH, IT'S LIKE THIS FAR OFF THE ROOF LINE. SOME KIND OF ROOF AND TWO ROOF LINES JUST RIGHT THERE TOGETHER. SO I THINK IT CAN BE DONE NOW. DOES IT MEAN IT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT BRINGING THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE DOWN. UM AND HOW MUCH WOULD YOU HAVE TO BRING DOWN THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE? TO PUT IT IN. TO HAVE A DETACHED WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION AND WE'LL FIGURE THAT OUT. EAT ANYTHING ELSE. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL GO ON TO WORK SESSION NUMBER THREE. DID. DID. DID SHE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? DID SHE DID YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, MA'AM, THAT YOU WANNA ASK OF US OR. YOU CAN'T. IF YOU'RE GONNA TALK, YOU HAVE TO COME UP FOR THE RECORD. I JUST DIDN'T WANT YOU TO FEEL LIKE YOU WEREN'T ALLOWED TO SPEAK. IF YOU HAD WANTED TO ASK A QUESTION TURN THE MIC ON. YES, OK, YEAH. UM I JUST DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO GET THIS APPROVED LIKE I WENT TO MY ARCHITECT, AND I SAID, WE HAVE TO MAKE SOME CHANGES. THEY YOU KNOW THEY'RE ASKING FOR THE GARAGE TO BE DETACHED. SHE LOOKED AT IT AND SHE SAID, I, I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT. I JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOM. SO SHE PUSHED THE HOUSE A LITTLE BIT. AND SHE SAID, OK, WE'RE GONNA DO, UM, I THINK, MISS UM JONES SUGGESTED THAT THE HARP THE FRONT PORCH WILL BE A LITTLE BIT KIND OF LIKE A WRAP AROUND, SO SHE MOVED IT BACK A LITTLE BIT. WE WERE ABLE TO LIKE, MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT DEEPER AND JUST A LITTLE BIT TO THE SIDE. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, SHE SAID, I JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOM TO MAKE IT DETACHED. UM I'M HERE IN 5 FT. TO MAKE IT TO BE DETACHED. BUT THEN YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT THERE'S A HOUSE THAT ONLY HAS LIKE THIS MUCH AND IT'S IS THAT CONSIDERED DETACHED. IF THEY IF, IF THE ARCHITECT DOES THIS LITTLE BIT OF ROOM IN BETWEEN. YOU KNOW THE GARAGE AND THE AND THE WELL, THAT WOULD BE THAT WOULD BE IS THAT CORRECT? YOU WOULD HAVE TO MAKE A CONSIDERATION. THE CODE'S NOT GONNA LOCK. YOU CAN'T WALK IN THERE. YOU CAN'T WALK BETWEEN ANY OF THESE OTHER TWO GARAGES EITHER IF YOU AT ALL I MEAN, I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM. I'M SORRY. YOU HAD TO BE ABLE TO HAVE TO LOOK TO SEE BECAUSE I DON'T I THERE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO BE ENOUGH FOR A DOOR TO SWING OPEN. YOU KNOW IT BECAUSE YOU YOU DON'T HAVE AN ENTRY TO THE GARAGE 
          [00:30:04]
ENTRY TO THE HOUSE. SO YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE ENOUGH ROOM FOR THE DOORS TO SWING OPEN. IT. AND ARE YOU? I MEAN, ARE YOU HAVE YOU CONSIDERED? LESSENING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE HOUSE SO THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH ROOM TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO GET IT APPROVED. I MEAN TO DETACH THE GARAGE APPROPRIATELY. UM AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY LIKE I WAS ASKING JASON, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THE HOUSE WOULD HAVE TO BE LOWERED. GET THE PROPER REQUIREMENTS. WHAT THAT EVEN LOOKS LIKE IS THAT INSTEAD OF 2600 SQUARE FEET, IS IT 2300 SQUARE FEET. IS IT 1900 SQUARE FEET? I I DON'T KNOW. THE HOUSE IS ONLY 1616 100 SQUARE FEET. OK UH, I'M USING JUST OK NUMBERS. I CAN HAVE SPECIFICS, BUT SO CURRENTLY IT'S 1600. OK SO DOES IT NEED TO BE 1500 TO HAVE THE RIGHT SPACE TO DETACH? DOES IT NEED TO BE 14? AND ARE YOU WILLING TO HAVE 14 6? I'LL SAY THIS ONLY BECAUSE I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH HER ABOUT SHE HAS CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS BASED ON FAMILY MEMBERS THAT ARE GOING TO BE LIVING AT THE HOME. AND I MEAN 16 HUNDREDS. AND NOWADAYS IS A SMALL HOUSE. I MEAN, I. I GREW UP IN A FOUR BEDROOM 1600 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE AND EVERYBODY YOU KNOW BACK THEN, IN THE SEVENTIES, IT WAS FINE. BUT NOWADAYS 1600 AGAIN, I. I CAN APPRECIATE THE DESIRE AND THE NUMBER OF FAMILY MEMBERS THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE, HOWEVER. AGAIN NOT I'M NOT TRYING TO BE MEAN IN WHAT I SAY. BUT YOU BOUGHT A SMALL LOT AND TO BUY A SMALL LOT. YOU HAVE TO BE OK WITH NOT HAVING A GIANT HOUSE ON A SMALL LOT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS INSTEAD OF I BOUGHT A SMALL LOT. I WANT A BIG HOUSE. 
          I NEED YOU TO YEAH, I GIVE EVERY CONSIDERATION FOR ME THE FRUSTRATING PART, YES IS BECAUSE THE LOT IS X AMOUNT, AND THEN WHEN YOUR ARCHITECT IS ARCHITECT IS SAYING THAT SHE CANNOT MAKE IT GIVE YOU EVERYTHING YOU WANT AND ABIDE BY THE ORDINANCE INSTEAD OF SAYING, OK, WELL, LET ME YOU MAKE A OR DESIGN A HOUSE THAT WILL ABIDE BY THE ORDINANCE . INSTEAD IT GOES IN THE DIRECTION OF LET ME DO GET THE HOUSE THAT I WANT WITHOUT REGARD TO THE ORDINANCE, AND THAT'S WHAT'S FRUSTRATING FOR ME BECAUSE, I AGREE IT IS A SMALL LOT, AND I UNDERSTAND NEEDING WHAT YOU NEED OUT OF A HOUSE, BUT TO ME WHAT YOU NEED OUT OF THE HOUSE IN THIS LOT. THEY DON'T ALIGN. AND SO IT'S EITHER YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO CHANGE THE DESIGN OF THIS HOUSE AND WHAT YOU GET OUT OF IT, OR WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BEND AND NOT FOLLOW OUR ORDINANCES. AND SO THAT'S AT THE END OF THE DAY. LIKE WHAT THE IMPASSE IS IN OUR JOB IS REALLY TO GO BY THE ORDINANCE. WE WOULD LOVE TO GIVE EVERYBODY WHAT THEY WANT. BUT SOME IN ORDER TO GO BY THE ORDINANCES. WE CAN'T DO THAT. SO WHEN I, UM, BOUGHT THIS SLOT IT IT'S REALLY NOT A SMALL LOT. I THINK WHAT IT WHAT IT AFFECTS THIS LOT IS THAT IT HAS TWO FRONTS. AND I DIDN'T FIND THAT OUT UNTIL LATER. ANOTHER THING THAT I SAW IS THAT THERE'S A HOUSE ON OAK. THAT IT'S WAS BUILT RECENTLY, AND IT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO THIS ONE. AND IT HAS AN ATTACHED GARAGE AND IT'S A NEWER HOME. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT ONE GOT APPROVED, AND THIS ONE JUST DOESN'T THE HABITAT FOR HUMANITY HOUSE. IT'S BLUE AT THE CORNER OF OAK AND NO, THERE'S I DON'T THINK IT'S BLUE. I THINK IT'S WHITE OAK AND WHAT OH, GOSH. I DIDN'T BRING IT TODAY. I HAD IT LAST TIME. BUT I BELIEVE IT'S ON. IT'S NOT THINK WHITE. ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE BLUE HOUSE. THE ONE THAT THE GALLERY DID FOR HIS SISTER BECAUSE THAT HOUSE HAD BEEN CONDEMNED. THE LADY WHO LIVED IN IT DIED. I EAT AND I DON'T THINK I HAVE IT WITH ME. IT DIDN'T COME FOR US. IT'S A NEW, IT'S A NEW, IT'S LIKE MAYBE FIVE YEARS OLD. THREE YEARS OLD OR SO. JASON I THINK I MENTIONED IT TO YOU. DO YOU REMEMBER WHICH ONE? IT WAS I. I DIDN'T BRING IT. UH HUH. JUST THE BLUE THE BLUE THAT WAS THAT LITTLE SHACK OF A HOUSE. THAT THEY READ DID BUT IT DIDN'T COME BEFORE HR C. SO IT WAS. OK, WAIT. I'LL OFF MY HEAD. I DON'T KNOW. 
          OH, I SEE WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT. WELL, I'D LIKE TO SAY, I THINK EAT. REGARDLESS LET'S SAY 
          [00:35:07]
THERE IS THERE ARE THERE ARE PUBLIC HOUSES. THERE'S DEFINITELY HOUSES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT DON'T MEET THE ORDINANCES TODAY, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING THE BOARD IN THE ORDINANCES IS TO TRY TO PRESERVE WHAT WE CAN SO JUST BECAUSE NOT ALL OF THE MEAT ALL ALL OF THEM AND WE'RE NOT ASKING YOUR HOUSE TO MEET ALL OF THEM. BUT IT JUST TO ME HAS TO MEET. UM, DEFINITELY MORE OF THEM. YOU KNOW, FOR ME TO BE COMFORTABLE FOR VOTING? YES AND SO TO LOOK TO OTHER HOUSES BACK. WELL, THIS ONE DOESN'T HAVE IT. AND THAT ONE DOESN'T HAVE IT TO ME IS LIKE DISINGENUOUS TO LIKE WHAT THE SPIRIT OF THE THIS BOARD IS. YEAH IT'S JUST VERY NEW, AND THAT'S WHY I WAS REFERENCING TO IT BECAUSE IT'S PRETTY NEW. WELL I THINK WITHOUT THAT, I MEAN, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. I DIDN'T EVEN THINK IT HAD A GARAGE. IT. IT HAD. I MEAN , DO YOU KNOW THE CROSS STREET? IS IT BIRMINGHAM? IT'S NOT A NEW BILL. IT WAS RENOVATED. I'LL HAVE TO PUT IT. WHATEVER WAS THERE WAS ALREADY THEY JUST BUILT AROUND THE STRUCTURE AND RENOVATED IT. BECAUSE IT WAS THAT'S IT. YEAH, YEAH. SO THIS WAS THE MAIN STRUCTURE. WHAT'S THE ADDRESS? WITH THE WE REDID THAT STRUCTURE IN AND THERE IS NO GARAGE THERE, UH, THAT SHE SAID, UH PARKING PAD AT THE BACK. UM. NO I WILL FIND THE ONE AND SEND IT TO JASON. MAYBE HE CAN SHARE IT. IT'S NOT THIS ONE. IT IT DOES HAVE AN ATTACHED GARAGE. 
          IT'S A TWO CAR GARAGE. AND IT'S A PRETTY NEW AND I'LL FIND IT ONE I KNOW OF. THAT'S NEW THERE BECAUSE I LIVE RIGHT THERE. I LIVE ON KIEFER IS THE BLUE HABITAT FOR HUMANITY HOUSE. IT DIDN'T COME BEFORE US EITHER. I DON'T THINK UH, AND IT DOES HAVE A IT DOES HAVE AN ATTACHED GARAGE. UM I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY HANDLE HABITAT, BUT IT WAS I GUESS. AT THE END OF THE DAY. 
          THE WHOLE POINT OF THE WORK SESSION WAS TO GET EVERYBODY'S OPINION AND MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS MOVING FORWARD, AND SO NOW I CAN DEFINITELY TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE. SURE, YOU KNOW, AND WE CAN GO FORWARD FROM THERE. SO AND I THINK I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION FOR THAT. SO I DO APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S INPUT THIS EVENING. IF YOU CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DETACH THAT GARAGE AND LIKE THOSE WINDOWS LOOK PROPER. SO WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE WINDOWS? DO YOU JUST WANT THE TRIM THAT GOES AROUND IT TO MAKE IT THE TRIM OUT? IT'S THE 6/6 OR THE 3/1. YOU KNOW, IF YOU IF YOU LOOK AT PICTURES OF A CRAFTSMAN HOUSE, YOU'LL SEE IT'S REALLY OBVIOUS HOW THERE THOSE WINDOWS ARE. THEY'RE NOT 1/1 LIKE ONE WHOLE PAIN AND ONE WHOLE PAIN. IT'S LIKE THREE OR 4/1 OR 6/6 THOSE THINGS, BUT THEN IT'S THE TRIM AROUND HOW THEY TRIM IT OUT WITH THE WOODEN WHAT'S THE BOARD AT THE BOTTOM OF THE WINDOW LIKE THE WINDOW SEAL ALMOST KIND OF THING. AND THEN THE THICKER FRAME AROUND THE IT'S NOT JUST A FLAT WINDOW AGAINST THE STARTED THE SIDING OF THE HOUSE. I THINK, UM, SOME OF THE I GUESS CONFUSION WAS ALSO ON THE ORDINANCE. IT HAS A POINTS OUT THOSE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE THERE, BUT THEN IT IT SAYS YOU HAD TO MEET AT LEAST TWO OF THIS ITEMS. AND SO WE MET MORE THAN TWO WE HAVE, LIKE FOUR ITEMS, AND SO THAT'S WHY YOU KNOW, WE WERE JUST LIKE, SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO, BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE, LIKE FOUR DIFFERENT ITEMS. FROM THE ORDINANCE. I DO KNOW WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT. 
          BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT I THINK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT HERE WHERE IT SAYS ENCOURAGE RIGHT OR TALKING ABOUT TO ENCOURAGE THE RETENTION OF ORIGINAL ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS. IT'S WHERE IT HAS THE PICTURE, AND IT SAYS IT NEEDS TO HAVE AT LEAST TWO OF THE FOLLOWING, UM, ELEMENTS FROM THE ORDINANCE. AND THAT'S WHERE YOU KNOW THE FRONT WAS ADDED THE PEAKS AND ALL OF THAT, LIKE THAT LITTLE FACADE OR NOT, THERE IS ANOTHER ONE THAT HAS LIKE THE LITTLE HOUSE, AND IT SHOWS THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS. THIS ONE. UM IT'S IN THE FRONT OF THE ONE THAT YOU JUST POINTED OUT THE CHANGE, SO RIGHT HERE, IT SHOWS THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS THAT THE CRAFTSMAN HAS TO HAVE. 
          AND IT SAYS YOU HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST TWO OF THE FOLLOWING. SO WE HAVE, LIKE FOUR DIFFERENT ITEMS ON THERE. SO WHICH STILL HAVE AN ATTACHED GARAGE. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S THE THING THREE OR 
          [00:40:03]
FOUR OF THE OTHERS. AND YOU HAVE THAT ATTACHED GARAGE THAT WIPES IT OUT. YEAH, I THINK THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT COMPONENTS. THERE'S THE CRAFTSMAN COMPONENT DOES LOOK LIKE CRAFTSMAN. AND THEN THERE'S EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IS JUST IN THE ORDINANCE LIKE THE ATTA THE GARAGE IS ATTACHED, AND THAT SAYS IT'S NOT SO I THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE IS FOR ME. YOU HAVE SO MANY ELEMENTS THAT IS THAT DON'T ABIDE BY THE ORDINANCE AND OTHER ASPECTS. SO THEN THE LITTLE BIT OF CRAFTSMAN YOU DO HAVE SORT OF THE GATES, THE OTHER. IT JUST MAKES IT ALL NOT QUITE UP TO IT. 
          FOR ME, SO IF WE FIND A WAY TO MOVE THE HOUSE A LITTLE BIT WHERE WE CAN DETACH THE GARAGE, THEN WE CAN MAYBE BE OK WITH THE FOR ME, MAYBE MORE CRAFTSMAN LIKE LIKE, MAYBE ADJUST THE WINDOWS LIKE SHE WAS SAYING, SO. THERE'S THE YEAH, THE WINDOWS JUST MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE CRAFTSMAN LIKE AND THEN I THINK IN THE DETACHED GARAGE, SO IT SOUNDS LIKE IF WE DO FIND A WAY TO, LIKE, DETACH THE GARAGE AND BE IN A ONE CAR GARAGE. THEN IT'S GONNA BE OK. I DIDN'T WANNA LOSE ONE GARAGE. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE PLACE FOR TWO FOR THE ONE IN THE GARAGE, ONE OUT. YOU KNOW, I. I WANTED TWO CAR GARAGE . BELIEVE ME, I. I REALLY WANTED A TWO CAR GARAGE. BUT THEN WHEN SHE HAD TO PUSH IT, THEN SHE WAS LIKE THERE'S NO WAY I CAN PUT A TWO CAR GARAGE. BUT IF WE CAN FIND A WAY TO GIVE A LITTLE SEPARATION AND DETACH IT. AND THEN WE'RE GOOD WITH THE OTHER STUFF. UH MAYBE OUT IN THE TREND, YOU KNOW, ON THE WINDOWS, THAT IT MAYBE FOR ME PLANTINGS TOO AROUND THEM BECAUSE THAT ALSO IF WE'RE IF WE'RE GOING TO WHAT IS THE ORDINANCE STATE? THAT'S ANOTHER ONE. THAT OUR OUR SKIRTING AROUND THE BOTTOM OF THE FOUNDATION. DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR ARCHITECT LOOKED OVER THE ORDINANCE BEFORE SHE DESIGNED IT , SHE DID IT AND SHE SAID, THEY'RE ASKING FOR AT LEAST TWO OF THESE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE, LIKE FOUR OF THEM. RIGHT BUT I FEEL LIKE THE GARAGE BEING ATTACHED LIKE THE NOSE SKIRTING. A LOT OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS MAKES ME BELIEVE THAT SHE DID NOT ACTUALLY READ IT. SHE LOOKED AT THE PHOTO AND WAS LIKE, OH, YEAH, IT MEETS THOSE, BUT NOT ANY OF THE OTHER STUFF, WHICH AGAIN? IT'S CUMULATIVE TO ME. SO I THINK HAVING HER LOOK AT EVEN THE OTHER STAFF, SHE SHE HAS IT, I. I SENT IT TO HER, AND SHE WAS VERY SURPRISED WHEN I GOT DENIED BECAUSE, SHE SAID, I'VE DONE OTHER HISTORICAL AND THEY WENT THROUGH FINE. I SHE SHE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND WHY I'M HERE. IF YEAH, I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK TO THOSE HISTORIC DISTRICT. I'M ONLY IN CONTROL OF THIS ONE. AS LITTLE AS I AM, UH, WHAT WERE YOU SHAKING YOUR HEAD ABOUT? ABOUT THE SKIRTING PART THE BOTTOM PART. OH, UM, IT WASN'T THE SKIRTING PART. IT WAS THE PLANTINGS THING BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD BECAUSE WE CAN'T ENFORCE IT. YEAH, AND I DON'T WE'VE BEEN DOWN THAT ROAD BEFORE, AND I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD AGAIN. CAN WE LOOK AT THAT ELEMENT, THOUGH? OK THAT ELEMENT OF THE WAY AT THE BOTTOM EVERYTHING EVERYBODY SAID THIS EVENING. WRITTEN DOWN INGRAINED IN YOUR MEMORY, SO I MEAN, I HONESTLY I FEEL LIKE I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION. TO HELP HER MAKE A DECISION ON HOW WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD. I. I WON'T BELABOR IT ANYMORE. ALL RIGHT. 
          WELL, THAT SOUNDS GOOD. WELL, I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY, UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH. OUR RIGHT, SO WE'LL GO ON TO WORK SESSION NUMBER THREE. DISCUSS AND REVIEW AMENDMENTS TO SECTION 6.3 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT PART OF TWO ELEMENTS. YES I ALREADY HAD MARKED OUT. 
          OK, SO AGAIN. WHAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR PACKET IS THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE. UM AND I HOPE EVERYBODY PRINTED IT OUT IN COLOR. UM SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE WHERE THE STRIKEOUTS ARE. AND IN THE REPORT, I DID HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE OF JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO TALK ABOUT, OR AND I WAS I. WHAT THIS WORK SESSION IS NOT NECESSARILY FOR US TO DRESS, ADDRESS EVERY SINGLE THING AND GET IT CORRECTED, BUT AT LEAST IT'S TO START A CONVERSATION. SO WE AS STAFF KIND OF KNOW WHERE WHERE YOU'RE WANTING TO SEE. IN THE CHANGES, AND THEN WE CAN MAKE THOSE CHANGES. SOME MORE RESEARCH OR WHAT HAVE YOU AND THEN BRING THAT BACK TO YOU? AND THEN AT THAT POINT, WE'LL ACTUALLY LOOK FORWARD TO FOR, UM RECOMMENDATION. SO THE FIRST THING IS ON LET ME SEE. LOOK AT YOUR PAGE 18 CAUSE I PRINTED MINE FOR STRAIGHT FROM THAT. I'M HOPING THE PAGES ARE STILL THE SAME. I DON'T HAVE PAGE NUMBERS. ARE YOU LOOKING FOR YOUR FIRST COMMENT? YES. SO PAGE 18 ON MINE IS THE SECTION E TWO C. WE SAY. UM THE UH HUH. OK. SO, UM AGAIN. 
          [00:45:03]
A LOT OF WHAT I'VE PUT IN HERE OR JUST THINGS THAT I'VE GOTTEN FROM YOU ALL FROM SOME OF THE LAST PROJECTS THAT HAVE COME THROUGH SOME STUFF THAT I'VE GOTTEN FROM EITHER IN OTHER CITIES OR FROM THE SECRETARY OF STATE. SO I THINK YOU KNOW AGAIN. WHAT DO WE WANT OUR DISTRICT TO LOOK LIKE? YEAH THEY'RE GONNA BE SOME GUIDELINES THAT THE S SAYS WE HAVE TO FOLLOW OR SUGGEST THAT WE FOLLOW. MAYBE WE DON'T WANT TO. OR MAYBE WE DO. SO THOSE ARE KIND OF SOME OF THE DIRECTION THAT I'M LOOKING FOR, UH, FROM YOU ALL. AND ME. UH, CHAIRMAN STONE. HOWEVER YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH IT IF YOU ALL JUST WANNA KIND OF GO THROUGH IT, AND I TAKE SOME NOTES, OR SEW THIS SO STARTING WITH C SINCE THAT'S THE FIRST COMMENT IN RED SO WE TOOK OUT. WE TALKED ABOUT TAKING OUT THE ENCOURAGED DISCOURAGE SO IN REPLACEMENT OF ENCOURAGE AND DISCOURAGE, OR THIS IS THE PROPOSED WORD, CORRECT THE FORM OF NEW CONSTRUCTION. AND ITS INTEGRATION WITH EXISTING RESIDENTIAL HISTORIC STRUCTURES IS CRITICAL TO MAINTAINING THE CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. TRUE. FORM INCLUDES THE SIZE, SHAPE, MASSING AND MATERIALS, NEW CONSTRUCTION. IT MAY BE DEFINED AS A NEW STAND ALONE RESIDENTIAL BUILDING. AS AN INFILL INTO THE DISTRICT. OR A NEW ACCESSORIES. SURE. HAD AN EXISTING RESIDENCE. TELL ME WHAT THAT MEANS, RIGHT THERE. IS THAT LIKE A BIG IF YOU HAVE A BIG ENOUGH LOT, AND YOU WANNA BUILD A SECOND STRUCTURE. AS AN INFILL INTO THE DISTRICT OR A NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BEHIND AN EXISTING RESIDENCE LIKE YOUR HOUSE. YOU WANT TO BUILD, UM A BIG STORAGE. OR GARAGE. SO THAT WOULD BE AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. CAN THIS BOARD WOULD HAVE OVERSIGHT OVER THAT? THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT I DON'T KNOW IF THIS GOES INTO THIS PART AS WELL. ABOUT SOMEBODY WANTING TO. 
          THEY HAD A BIG ENOUGH LOT THAT THEY WANTED TO BUILD A SECOND LIKE A MOTHER IN LAW'S NAME ON THEIRS, AND THERE WAS GONNA BE SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT DOES THAT GO INTO THIS PART TOO? OR IS THIS JUST STRICTLY ABOUT A NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? IT COULD IT COULD, BUT A LOT OF THAT WILL FALL BACK ON THE ZONING ORDINANCE AS WELL, BECAUSE NOT EVERY DISTRICT CAN YOU PUT A SECOND RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE? I MEAN, THE WAY OUR ORDINANCE IS SINGLE FAMILY IS A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, UM, IN THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT. YOU CAN HAVE, UM RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL ON THE SAME LOT. SO I MEAN, THAT JUST TAKES YOU TO THE BUILDING CODE TWO LOTS LIKE I HAVE. I COULD HAVE TWO STRUCTURES, BUT I'D HAVE TO HAVE A RESIDENTIAL AND A COMMERCIAL. A SECOND WOULD HAVE TO BE A COMMERCIAL. EXCEPT I DON'T HAVE COMMERCIAL IN MY SIDE. NO, BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE SEPARATE PLANET LOTS. YOU KNOW, IF YOU YES. IF YOU SEPARATED IT, THEN THEIR INDEPENDENT FROM EACH OTHER. THEN I COULD PUT A RESIDENTIAL A SECOND SINGLE FAMILY. YES, BUT AS IT IS PLANTED TOGETHER TWO LAWS, BUT IT'S PLANTED TOGETHER. ONLY ONE STRUCTURE AND AS AN ACCESSORY BUILDING. YES IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AN ACCESSORY BUILDING. NOW WE HAVE ON BALLARD NEXT TO THE COFFEE SHOP. I BELIEVE SO THERE WAS WAY BACK IN THE DAY. THERE WAS THE HOUSE, THE MAIN STRUCTURE AND THERE WAS A GARAGE, UH, DETACHED. SO THE GARAGE WAS TORN DOWN. HE WANTED TO REBUILD. OH HE BROUGHT IT BEFORE HERE. HE WANTED TO REBUILD IT, BUT IT BE A RESIDENTIAL. WELL THAT'S NOT ALLOWED BY THE ORDINANCE, AND IT WASN'T A LARGE ENOUGH LOT TO SEPARATE IT TO REPLANT IT. BUT NOW HE COULD USE IT AS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE OR IT COULD BE ANOTHER COMMERCIAL. LOT UH, USE, BUT THE ORDINANCE DOES NOT ALLOW BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE MULTIFAMILY. THEN IT DOESN'T ALLOW MULTI FAMILY THAT MAKES SENSE. ANYBODY HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THIS PART OF IT? THERE'S A PART OF IT TO ME. IT FEELS LIKE IT'S KIND OF RIGHT ON. OH, YEAH, BUT BUT I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT SAYS. IT'S ALMOST LIKE IT SAYS A LOT. BUT IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING , DOES IT? YOU FEEL THAT WAY? SOMETIMES WHEN YOU READ A WHOLE BUNCH OF WORDS WELL IT TO ME WHAT THE GOAL WAS OK, OK, THEN I'LL LOOK AT THAT, UH, BECAUSE I KNOW WE ALL JUST AGREED WITH THE TAKE OUT THE DISCOURAGED ENCOURAGE. OK, SO THEN D. THE FEDERAL SECRETARY OF THE 
          [00:50:01]
INTERIOR GUIDELINES. FOR NEW BUILDINGS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS ENCOURAGE SIMILARITY OF FORM AND MATERIALS, BUT NOT ACTUAL REPLICATION. THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY. SO BUT HOW DOES REPLICATION EQUATE TO OR EQUAL TO OUR COMPARED TO ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. BECAUSE I'M NOT TRYING TO REPLICATE A HOUSE. BUT I DO WANT ALL THE, UH ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS OF WHATEVER STYLE THE HOUSE IS. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES AND I THINK THAT GOES TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT, UM YEAH. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GONNA MEET EVERY SINGLE THING OF A CRAFTSMAN HOME IF IT'S BUILT TODAY, BUT YOU WANT A MAJORITY OF THE CUR TO ME. THIS IS WHAT THIS SAYS. YES I LIKE THE WAY THIS WAS REDONE IT TO ME. IT'S SORT OF BROAD BUT TELLING THEM TO TRY TO MEET THE STANDARDS AND TO ME GIVES US MORE LEEWAY. WITHOUT LIKE, I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF WHAT SHE'S SAYING IS. WELL, THIS HOUSE DID THIS AND MY HOUSE HAS THIS TWO FEATURES VERSUS WE CAN SAY THE OVERALL WHATEVER THEME OF THE HOUSE IS NOT TRUE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO I LIKE IT. YEAH. I DO LIKE THIS. I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND HOW HOW IT WAS EQUATING TO ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS. UH, REPLICA REPLICATION IS NOT THE SAME TO ME AS ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS. THAT MAKES YOU I'M NOT TRYING TO REPLICATE A HOUSE LIKE I SEE A HOUSE IN IN ROCKWALL, AND I'M NOT GONNA REPLICATE THAT HOUSE. BUT I DO IF IT'S A CRAFTSMAN, AND I'M GONNA BUILD A CRAFTSMAN. I AT LEAST WANT TO HAVE ALL THE CRAFTSMAN ELEMENTS ON IT. THAT'S REPLICATING TO ME. YES I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GONNA GET ALL OF THE CRAFTSMAN ELEMENTS, BUT I THINK YOU CAN GET A LOT OF THEM ARE MOST OF THEM ARE AS MANY THAT CAN SAY YES, THERE WAS THAT DEFINE IT EXACTLY BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE HER HOUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, DOESN'T HAVE THE IMPORTANT ONES THAT TRULY DEFINE ONE EQUAL TO ATTACH GRUDGE OR DETACHED, GARAGE DETACHED GARAGE IS MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN A RAFTER BAR. OR A OH, OK. OK RIGHT. THAT'S A BIG ELEMENT. I THINK THEY'RE SMALL ELEMENTS AND THERE'S BIG ELEMENTS TO ME. YOU CAN'T PUT AN ATTACHED GARAGE ON AND SAY YEAH, BUT I GOT THIS BAR UP HERE AT THE TIME. THAT'S A CRAFTSMAN BAR, BUT YEAH, THAT'S THIS LITTLE B BAR UP THERE TWO BARS, AND IT'S NOT THE SAME. GO AHEAD. I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, UM I THINK THE BIGGEST THING IS THIS IS JUST SAYING, LIKE LIKE SHE WAS SAYING, LIKE THE MAJORITY OF IT HAS TO BE A CRAFTSMAN, RIGHT? BUT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL THAT IT WAS BUILT IN 2024 AND NOT, YOU KNOW, AND I AND I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING IS AS LONG AS YOU CAN TELL. KIND OF, LIKE, WHAT TIME PERIOD IT WAS YOUR MATERIALS A LOT OF ARE GONNA BE THAT HAS THE SAME MATERIAL SPECIFIC MATERIALS, OK? UM AND THEN NUMBER THREE STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES FOR DEMOLITION AND RELOCATION UNDER DEMOLITION. IT'S THERE'S UH, A LITTLE BIT OF A CHANGE PRIOR TO DEMOLITION OF A STRUCTURE. OK A LETTER FROM A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IS REQUIRED IF THE REQUEST IS BASED ON A LACK OF INTEGRITY AND STRUCTURAL SOUNDNESS, OK? THAT'S GOOD, BECAUSE I THINK BEFORE IT SAID IT WAS REQUIRED PERIOD AND SO YEAH. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN NOT SURE WHAT PAGE IT IS. BUT AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE. IT'S I. I AND THEN THREE AS AND UNDER THREE. I'S EVERYBODY THERE. IT'S SEVERAL PAGES. YEAH. I DON'T HAVE ANY PAGE NUMBERS ON MY THE ACCESSORY BUILDING. SO, IT SAYS. 
          NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURES SUCH AS GARAGES, SHEDS, GREENHOUSES, ET CETERA SHALL BE LOCATED IN A SEPARATE STRUCTURE. YEAH. SO AND WHAT ARE WE SAYING HERE? NEW IN MY MIND MEANS NEW BUILD, OR IF MY HOUSE IS ALREADY EXISTING IN DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT, REGARDLESS OF WHAT STYLE IT IS, IT'S ALREADY THERE. BUT NOW I WANT TO BUILD A GARAGE OR A SHED OR A GREENHOUSE. THAT IS A NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, NOT A NEW MAIN PRIMARY BUILDING, BUT NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND IT HAS TO MEET THESE CRITERIA SO I COULD NOT HAVE MY HOUSE. WHATEVER STYLE IT IS. AND 10 YEARS LATER. I WANT TO ADD A GREENHOUSE AND ATTACH IT. CAN'T BE ATTACHED. IT HAS TO BE WHATEVER IT SAYS. LOCATED IN A SEPARATE STRUCTURE. PLANET. 5 FT . WHATEVER IT SAYS. OK SO THIS IS APPLIED TO LIKE NEW BUILDS LIKE FOR A NEW HOUSE TOTAL CORRECT. SO THIS WOULD ONLY BE 
          [00:55:06]
IF THE MAIN STRUCTURE IS ALREADY THERE. SO WHERE IS THE PART THAT TALKS ABOUT NEW STRUCTURE? ARE WE GONNA GET TO THAT? BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE I KNOW WHAT THAT SAYS. YES WE WILL GET TO THAT. EVERYBODY OK WITH I THINK THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED TO SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES. CONSTRUCTED. AFTER JUNE OF 2024. BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE FROM THIS POINT FORWARD, RIGHT? OK? AND THEN THERE'S THAT, AND THAT'S IS SPECIFIC TO THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. EVEN IF THE HOUSE IS OLDER, THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS NEW. THEN THIS RULE APPLIES RIGHT. WELL, COULD YOU PUT A NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON AN EXISTING DWELLING. WOULD THAT COVER IT? BECAUSE YOU'RE YOU'RE SAYING THAT IT'S THE HOUSE IS ALREADY EXISTING. IT'S BEEN THERE FOR A FOR ONE THING. IT'S JUST AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND THE WAY THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING THIS, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE ON THE DWELLING. IT'S IT. IT MIGHT BE ON THE PROPERTY, BUT IT'S THE DWELLING AND THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ATTACHED. THEY'RE GONNA BE DETACHED. RIGHT SO ANY NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE CONSTRUCTED AFTER MONTHS YEAR THAT THIS OR NEW ORDINANCE OR NEW LANGUAGE TAKES EFFECT. IT'S JUST REALLY SPECIFIC, AND THAT WAY THERE'S NO CONFUSION AS TO WELL. THE HOUSE IS OLD, BUT THE STRUCTURE IS NEW, AND YOU KNOW IT'S ANY NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE INSTRUCTED AFTER X DATE. MUST BE DETACHED. I MEAN, I'M OK WITH THE DATE PUTTING A DATE IN THIS FAMILY. I MEAN, THE DATE WILL ALREADY BE BECAUSE THE DATE WILL BE THE DATE THAT THE ORDINANCE IS ADOPTED. SO ANYTHING THAT'S CHANGED IN HERE IS ONLY BECOMES EFFECTIVE THE DAY THAT THAT ORDINANCE IS ADOPTED. BUT I THINK FOR ME IT'S DEFINING WHAT ACCESSORY IS BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THERE'S OH, IT'S ALREADY ATTACHED. SO IT'S YOU KNOW, CAN'T BE AN ACCESSORY. SO FOR ME, THAT'S WHAT I FEEL LIKE AND I DON'T WANNA DEFINE IT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE POINT OF WHERE THEY HAVE SOMEONE OFF THAT'S NOT LISTED. 
          BUT TO ME IT HAS TO BE VERY, LIKE EVEN MORE CLEAR THAT TO LIKE ONLY THE MAIN HOUSE WITH THE BEDROOMS AND BATHROOM AND KITCHEN OR WHATEVER ELSE IS THE IS MAIN. ANYTHING ELSE IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. YEAH. GIVE ME A SEC. AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE LIVING. IN THE LIVING IS BEDROOMS, BATHROOM KITCHEN. LIVING ROOM. I MEAN, YOU DON'T NEED A DEN TO LIVE. YOU DON'T NEED A PLAY ROOM TO LIVE. YOU DON'T NEED A I KNOW PEOPLE. MY ARCHITECTURE BRAIN THINKS ANYTHING UNDER THE ROOF. IS PART OF THE MAIN MAIN STRUCTURE. 
          ANYTHING OUTSIDE UNDER THE MAIN ROOF IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. BUT YOU COULD PUT ANYTHING UNDER THE MAIN ROOF. THEN WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT THE TEXAS REAL ESTATE COMMISSIONS DEFINITION THE TEXAS REAL ESTATE COMMISSION'S DEFINITION. WHAT IS IT? I DON'T KNOW. I WAS TRYING TO LOOK IT UP ON MY PHONE AND I COULDN'T FIND IT. SO WOULDN'T THE DIFFERENCE BE, THOUGH? WHERE ARE YOU BUILDING THAT HOUSE? IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. YOU'RE NOT GONNA PUT A GREENHOUSE OR A SHED OR WHATEVER IN THE MAIN STRUCTURE, SO IT'S GONNA BE AN ACCESSORY. SO OUR CURRENT DEFINITION ACCORDING TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, AND I THINK THERE'S ONE WORD HERE. IN MY OPINION, THAT'S IMPORTANT. ACCESSORY STRUCTURE MEANS STRUCTURES THAT ARE INCIDENTAL TO AND I THINK THAT'S THE IMPORTANT PART. INCIDENTAL TOO, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHAT A HOUSE IS FOR. YEAH AND LOCATED ON THE SAME LOT AS A PRINCIPAL BUILDING , AND THIS INCLUDES BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO. AND THEN IT GOES ON TO GIVE A LIST. IT JUST SAYS IT SAYS TRASHING CLOSER SIGN STRUCTURES, FENCES, WALLS, WIND POWERED SYSTEMS AND OTHER SIMILAR STRUCTURES. SO I THINK THE INCIDENTAL TO HELPS A LOT. AND AGAIN LIKE I SAY, RENEE I GO. IT GOES DOWN TO IT TO ME IS WHERE ARE WE BUILDING THIS HOUSE? IT. I'M HAPPY FOR YOU TO BUILD ANYTHING YOU WANT OUT THERE. BUT IN HERE WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE. I AGREE WITH THAT. THE ONLY THING THAT I CAUSE I THINK IT WAS REALLY KEY. WHAT YOU SAID THAT MAYBE WE NEED TO TRULY DEFINE WHAT ACCESSORY BECAUSE WE'RE WHAT IS THIS? 30 YEARS 40 YEARS. 
          [01:00:02]
NO, WE'RE PROBABLY CLOSE TO 50 YEARS, A RANCH STYLE HOUSE. IS HISTORIC NOW. THOSE HAD GARAGES. 
          MHM. YEAH. BUT AGAIN, THAT'S THE ARCHITECTURE, RIGHT? RIGHT SO IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO BUILD A RANCH STYLE HOUSE IN THE DISTRICT, AND THEY WANTED AN ATTACHED GARAGE, I WOULD SAY YES, BECAUSE THAT'S TRUE TO THE ARCHITECTURE, BUT SEE THAT THAT'S WHY I LIKE I THINK DEFINING ACCESSORY. AND FOR ME, IT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAVE TO BE. DETACHED BECAUSE OF THE GARAGE AND MAYBE IT FITS IT, BUT I THINK IT SHOULD BE UP TO US TO DECIDE WHETHER AND SO WE DON'T PIN DOWN AND SAY IT HAS TO BE SANDRA, YOU NEED TO TURN ON YOUR MICROPHONE. I THOUGHT IT WAS ON BUT YOU ARE RIGHT TO US, THEN WE'RE NOT. IT SHOULDN'T BE UP TO US. THE ARCHITECT, THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. SHOULD DICTATE WHETHER THAT GRUDGE IS DETACHED OR OR ATTACHED, UH, RANCH HOUSE. UH, ATTACHED, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS I WE DEFINE ACCESSORY AND WE DON'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY SAY 100% THAT IT HAS TO BE DETACHED. BUT TO ME, IT NEEDS TO FOLLOW WHAT THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE IS AND FINDING ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. SO THAT WAY IF SOMEONE'S LIKE, OH, WELL, I DO HAVE A RANCH HOUSE IN MY GARAGE IS ATTACHED. I'M LIKE THAT'S FINE. AND THEN SOMEONE COMES UP WITH A DIFFERENT STYLE AND THE GARAGE IS ATTACHED. AND IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE STYLE WISE, THEN WE CAN SAY NO, AND THAT BECAUSE WE DEFINED IT AND LEFT IT OPEN TO US. SIDE BASED ON THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE, SO IT'S NOT ARBITRARILY. YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WE DECIDE IT'S JUST ACCESSORY STRUCTURES MAY OR MAY NOT BE ATTACHED BASED ON THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE. AND THESE ARE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES. SO WOULD IT BE? THE HOOVERS TO PUT IN THERE THE LANGUAGE, ACCORDING TO THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THE HOUSE. BECAUSE THEN IT'S NOT REALLY LEFT AT THIS. IT'S DICTATED BY THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. THAT MEAN WE CAN'T YOU COULDN'T MAKE AN EXCEPTION STILL. EITHER WAY, YOU COULD MAKE AN EXCEPTION. BUT AT LEAST THIS WAY, YOU KNOW THAT YOUR GUIDANCE IS THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SOME EXCEPTIONS OUTSIDE OF THAT, BUT THAT THAT'S YOUR THAT'S YOUR GUIDELINE IS THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. IF YOU WANT TO. YEAH I MEAN OUTSIDE OF THAT, THEN THAT'S I THINK TO ME THE ORDINANCE THE FOR THE STYLE WISE ANYWAYS, IT NEEDS TO BE AN EMPHASIS ON YOUR HOMIES TO TRY TO LIKE MEET SORT OF THIS THIS STYLE OF YOUR HOUSE. WHETHER THAT IS DETACHED OR NOT ARE DETACHED, YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING TO MEET THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE LIKE THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF IT, AND THEN YEAH, THERE COULD BE A LOT OF VARIANCES THAT WE ALLOW. BASED ON DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT I THINK THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IS TO TRY AND MEET THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE. WHAT'S THE LIST THAT THEY GIVE JASON UNDER? AND WHAT WAS THE WORD YOU SAID THE KEY WORD INCIDENTAL. BUT THEN YOU SAID THEY HAVE A LIST. WHAT'S THE WHAT'S THE LIST THEY GIVE UH, UM , TRASH ENCLOSURES SIGN STRUCTURES, FENCES, WALLS, WIND POWERED SYSTEMS. AND OTHER STRUCTURES. SO THEY DON'T SAY GARAGES, SHEDS OR GREENHOUSES. 
          THAT'S NOT NO, THEY AREN'T EVEN ON THEIR LIST. OK? UM SO THIS AGAIN, THIS JUST HAS TO DO WITH THAT. A NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON AN EXISTING DWELLING. OK? ANY OTHER COMMENTS ABOUT THIS ONE. 
          WELL I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON AN EXISTING BUT NOT ON AN EXISTING BUILDING JUST NEAR AN EXISTING BUILDING. I DON'T THINK YOU EVEN HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT AN EXISTING BECAUSE OUR ORDINANCE WILL NOT ALLOW AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT DOES NOT ALREADY HAVE A PRIMARY. YES, I THINK THAT'S WHY I KEEP GETTING CONFUSED. OK, SO IT'S BASICALLY IF YOU WANT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. THIS IS WHERE YOU'RE GONNA LOOK OK AND YEAH. AND GO AHEAD. I WAS JUST GONNA SAY KEEP IN MIND. UM THAT THE SOUTH OR I'M SORRY THAT THE DOWNTOWN IS AN OVERLAY DISTRICT. SO IF THE DOWNTOWN DOESN'T ADDRESS IT AND CHANGE IT. 
          SPECIFICALLY THERE STILL A ZONING ORDINANCE. THAT COVERS ALL OF THOSE THINGS. YOU KNOW, SO EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW, I JUST READ ABOUT THE INTENSITY STRUCTURES. I WAS ACTUALLY GONNA LOOK IN OUR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AREA IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE, WHICH IS LIKE 2.3, OR 2.4 THAT 
          [01:05:03]
WILL COVER THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT, EXCEPT FOR WHAT SECTION 6.3 SPECIFICALLY CHANGES. BECAUSE IT'S AN OVERLAY DISTRICT. OK? ANYTHING ELSE ON? UH UH, ALL RIGHT, LET ME SEE WHAT'S NEXT. SEE I, UH, I SEE. UH UH, WHAT'S YEAH. I DON'T KNOW WHAT PAGE THIS IS PAGE 21. OH ACTUALLY, CAN I STOP YOU BEFORE THAT, CAUSE I YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA GO RIGHT TO THE 6 FT SIDEWALKS, YOU AND THOSE SIX? YEAH BECAUSE IF WE SO WE IN THE LIKE WE HAVE THE ORDINANCE IN THERE HAS THAT SKIRTING OR PLANTINGS, BUT WE CAN'T BUT WE CAN'T REALLY ENFORCE THE PLANNINGS. THEN WHY IS THIS IN HERE IF WE CAN'T ENFORCE IT? IN THE 6 FT SIDEWALKS STRICTLY WITH NO NEW BUILDS WHERE YOU'RE IT'S LIKE A NEW STRUCTURE CELL CONSTRUCT. AT LEAST A 6 FT WIDE SO EXCEPT IN THE HISTORIC HISTORIC IT'S ALL ALREADY A ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOOD, SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S MORE FOR A NEW BUILD IN A NEW, UH, RESIDENTIAL THING IN HERE YOU WERE ON THE BOARD I. I REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT 6 FT SIDEWALKS. I DON'T UNLESS IT WAS WHERE THEY WERE GOING TO REDO SIDEWALKS. REMEMBER WHEN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT REDOING A LOT OF THE SIDEWALKS? THEY WERE TAKING NEIGHBORHOODS AND THOSE THAT WERE MESSED UP? YEAH, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T THE STATE NOW THAT IT HAS TO BE 6 FT. WIDE FOR NEW. YEAH, SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT IS. IS TRY TO MAKE THREE SIDEWALK THAN THEY WOULD GO TO THE 6 FT SIDEWALK. BUT MASS SIDEWALKS WERE JUST REDONE WELL, AND THAT'S WHERE I'M NOT SURE MYSELF AND MISS DO SAW EYE TO EYE ON. THIS WAS IF THERE WASN'T A SIDEWALK THAT ALREADY EXISTED. YES, WE WOULD ASK. THE HOME BUILDER, WHICH IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW FOR THE FOR THE ONE WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT IN THE PREVIOUS WORK SESSION. UM TO UM BUILD A SIDEWALK AND MAKE IT 6 FT. AND WE DO THE SAME THING WITH COMMERCIAL IF THEY HAVE A, YOU KNOW. A COMMERCIAL BUILDING COMES IN WHATEVER THEIR FRONTAGE IS. WE ARE WE THEY ARE REQUIRED TO PUT IN THE SIDEWALK EVEN IF IT'S IN CITY RIGHT AWAY. EVEN IF IT'S ADJACENT TO A 4 FT SIDEWALK? YES, BECAUSE EVENTUALLY YOU GOTTA CHANGE IT SOMEHOW. YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAY. UM BUT THAT'S MY POINT. BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO IF THERE'S ALREADY IF THERE'S ALREADY A SIDEWALK THERE? MY INTERPRETATION. THAT WAS JUST MY INTERPRETATION WAS THAT THAT YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO TEAR THAT SIDEWALK OUT AND PUT IN A NEW ONE. TO MEET THE SIX. IT WAS ONLY THAT IF THERE'S NO SIDEWALK THERE, AND THAT WAS THE ARGUMENT THAT I WAS MAKING EARLIER IN REGARDS TO THIS WELL, WHICH I THINK AND WE COULD ADD THAT TO THIS WELL, I'M OK WITH BUT AS IT IS THE WAY IT READS SHE WOULD NOT BE ABIDING BY THE HORNETS. 
          SO FOR ME, THEN WE'VE GOT TO CHANGE THAT. TO EITHER STATE THAT OR WHATEVER WE WANT IT TO STATE BECAUSE THIS IS SHE'S NOT MAKING IT PUT A COMMENT THERE AND SAYS, UNLESS A CURRENT SIDEWALK ALREADY OR WHEN A SIDEWALK IS NOT WELL, BUT THEN BUT THEN IS WHAT'S THE GOAL OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AT A CERTAIN POINT. DO WE WANT 6 FT SIDEWALKS, AND WHEN ARE WE GOING TO ENFORCE THAT? AND THAT WAS THE REASON THAT IT WAS PUT IN THERE. THAT'S A SIDEWALK 6 FT SIDEWALK. THE REASON THAT THIS WAS EVEN IN HERE IS BECAUSE THE IDEA WAS THAT DOWNTOWN NEEDED TO BE MORE WALKABLE. YES AND WE HAVE A LOT OF THAT WAS REALLY FOCUSING ON BALLOT AND JACKSON. 
          YEAH CAUSE I WAS GONNA SAY A 6 FT. SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE WOULD TAKE UP HALF MY FRONT YARD. YEAH, I HAD A 2 FT SIGN AND SEE THAT THAT MAY BE SOMETHING I THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT BECAUSE AND I'M JUST GUESSING HERE. THIS MAY HAVE REALLY BEEN PART OF THE ORDINANCE WHEN WE WERE REALLY FOCUSING ON JACKSON AND BALLARD, AND THEN WHEN WE EXTEND IT THE BOUNDARIES TO KIEFER, THIS NEVER GOT CHANGED. WELL THAT COULD BE IT. I THINK, ESPECIALLY WITH THE CHANGES THAT ARE GOING TO HAPPEN IN DOWNTOWN. THIS IS IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT NOW BECAUSE OF THAT, BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA BRING MORE PEOPLE, MORE PEDESTRIANS, MORE BIKERS, WHATEVER IT'S GONNA BE TO DOWNTOWN. AND SO THERE'LL BE MORE PEOPLE OVER HERE AND I MEAN, I WALK A LOT AND THE EXISTING SIDEWALKS YOU BARELY CAN FIT TWO PEOPLE, BARELY TWO PEOPLE. SO YOU'RE NOT HAVING PEOPLE GO IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT. BECAUSE MY WIFE AND I, FOR EXAMPLE, WALK A LOT AND YOU CANNOT WALK SIDE BY SIDE. NO ON ON A LOT OF SIDEWALKS, AND SO I'M NOT OPPOSED TO EVENTUALLY HITTING A 6. FT. UM IN FACT, OUR NORMAL NOW IN A NEW RES RESIDENTIAL A ZONING ORDINANCE REQUIRES FIVE IS OUR MINIMUM. HERE'S WHAT I DON'T QUITE 
          [01:10:04]
UNDERSTAND, THOUGH. JASON IS THAT AGAIN I WILL USE MY NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM. FOR A FIVE OR 6 FT. SIDEWALK AGAIN WITHOUT TAKING UP HALF OF MY FRONT YARD OR GOING INTO THE DITCH BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE CURBING LIKE NEIGHBORHOODS. DO I HAVE A DITCH? AND IF YOUR HOUSE IF THEY WERE EVER TO REDO THAT STREET, THEY WOULD GO TO CURB AND GUTTER AND THERE'D BE PLENTY OF ROOM. YOU'D BE SURPRISED HOW MUCH OF THAT FRONT YARD PROBABLY IS IN. ACTUALLY, YOUR FRONT YARD IS ACTUALLY CITY RIGHT AWAY. COME TAKE IT. WELL, OUR COME MOW IT. SO FOR ME, I, I THIS IS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT WE TRY TO MOVE TO 6 FT SIDEWALKS? NO. WHETHER THAT IS WHEN YOU BUILD A NEW HOUSE, SO THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T HAVE TO, LIKE DO IT NOW, LIKE FOR YOUR HOUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT FOR ME, I WOULD LIKE THAT BECAUSE I THINK WILEY IS GOING TO BECOME THE DOWNTOWN MORE WALKABLE. AND IN ORDER TO GET PEOPLE DOWNTOWN, WALKING AND STAYING IN THAT AREA, YOU'RE GONNA NEED LARGER SIDEWALKS. I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW HOMEOWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SIDEWALKS. NORMALLY THE BUILDER BUILDS THEM. UM AND HERE'S THE THING IN THE CITY OF WILEY, THOUGH, AND THIS WAS ALSO ONE OF MY ARGUMENTS WAS IN THE CITY OF WILEY. IN FACT, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS DURING THE BUDGET MEETING JUST ON TUESDAY NIGHT. UM THE CITY. WILEY TAKES CARE OF THAT. FOR HOMEOWNERS. A LOT OF CITIES DON'T DO THAT. BUT WE'VE GOT SEVERAL $100,000 EVERY YEAR THAT OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT GOES OUT AND REPLACES. SIDEWALKS THAT ARE MESSED UP, EVEN THOUGH A VAST MAJORITY OF CITIES IT IS THE HOMEOWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY. 
          THEY JUST PUT IN THE SIDEWALKS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. WHEN I BOUGHT MY HOUSE, THEY WERE JUST DUSTING OFF THE CONCRETE. THEY HAD NEVER 2013. OF 2 JANUARY 2012. THERE HAD NEVER BEEN SIDEWALKS. AROUND MY HOUSE, BUT THEY'RE SMALL. YEAH. I MEAN, I'M FINE. YEAH, JUST JUST ME. I MEAN , WELL, COULD WE COULD WE STATE THAT OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD FORCE THE HOMEOWNER TO INCUR THAT ADDITIONAL COST. BUT IS IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO STATE SOMETHING THAT WHATEVER, HOW FAR AWAY THEY HAVE TO BE FROM DIFFERENT PLACES THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WILL EVENTUALLY HAVE A 6 FT SIDEWALK. WHEN THE CITY DOES COME AROUND AND MAKE THAT 6 FT. I DON'T EVEN THINK THAT NEEDS TO GO IN THE ORDINANCE. THAT'S A KNOWN REQUIREMENT AND WHEN PUBLIC WORKS GOES OUT AND DOES REPLACEMENTS, THEY DO THE NEW THING. IN FACT, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THEY'RE DOING THE NEW REQUIREMENTS. AND I THINK MISS SALLY HAS BEEN LEADING THIS WITH THE 88. WE'VE HAD TO GO THROUGH AND REPLACE A TON OF PERFECTLY GOOD. WELL, FROM A CERTAIN PERSPECTIVE, PERFECTLY GOOD RAMPS, BUT THERE'S A NEW AD A STANDARD AND SO NOW WE'VE GONE THROUGH AND WHEN WE'RE IMPROVING AND WE REPLACE THOSE I WILL SAY THESE ARE NOT PERFECTLY GOOD BEFORE, BUT YEAH, I UNDERSTAND. AND SO IF YOU HAVE A 3 FT SIDEWALK NOW AND YOU REPLACE IT DOWN, AND IT'S DOWNTOWN, YOU KNOW, AND THE CITY COMES IN TO HELP OUT WITH THAT, THEN YEAH, IT SHOULD GO TO 6 FT. IN MY IN IN MY OPINION. AND THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE AS A STANDARD WITHIN THE CITY, AND IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE IN THIS ORDINANCE. I MEAN, I'M OK WITH THAT. I JUST FOR ME. I'D LIKE TO SEE IT BE MORE WALKABLE, BUT, YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD FORCE IT UPON THE HOMEOWNER. AND IF IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE IN THE ORDINANCE, THEN I MEAN, MAYBE WE REMOVE IT. I THINK WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IN DOWNTOWN? I WOULD THINK. IS THAT YOU KNOW WHEN THEY START BUILDING THE WALK ABILITY AND ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME WHERE IT'S RAILROAD PROPERTY, AND THEY PUT SIDEWALKS THAT THAT'S WHERE YOUR 6 FT SIDEWALKS ARE GONNA BE FOR THEM TO WALK AROUND. THEY WON'T DO ANYTHING TO OURS, BECAUSE I MEAN, THEY'RE NEW. THEY'RE NOT BROKEN UP OR BAD OR ANYTHING. THEY'LL MAKE THEM BIGGER ON THAT SIDE AND SO LET LET US LET US US BEING STAFF KIND OF DO SOME MORE THINKING ON THAT. MAYBE WE GET WITH OUR CITY ENGINEER. UM AND JUST LOOK AT ALL THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT DOING DOWNTOWN TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS, SO WHEN WE BRING THIS BACK TO YOU, WE'LL EITHER STILL HAVE IT IN HERE WITH AN EXPLANATION. YEAH, I LIKE THAT, BECAUSE I DO THINK WHATEVER IS PLANNED DOWNTOWN. WOULD BE IS GOING TO AFFECT WHAT WE NEED FOR YOU. OK? YEAH, WE'LL WE'LL GET MORE INFORMATION ON THAT FOR YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO IN WHAT PAGE WAS THIS NEXT ONE SAME PAGE 21 UNDER, UM, PARKING FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL USES THAT COMMERCIAL USES. NOW THAT'S NOT MY NEXT ONE. IT SHOULD BE. NO. THIS IS RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES WITH OH, NO. IS IT OUT OF YOUR WAY AHEAD OF US, SANDRA. I CAME TO THE NEXT BOOTH. I MEAN, A RED THING. YEAH, HE WAS. THE FEDERAL 
          [01:15:09]
MINE DIDN'T HAVE NUMBERS ON THEM . PAGE NUMBERS. THERE'S NEWS. HOLD ON COMMERCIAL SOMETHING PARKING FOR NO. PARKING FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL PARKING FOR RESIDENTIAL GO TO PARKING FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL, AND IT'S II. I YEAH, YOURS ISN'T MINE ISN'T RED. YEAH, MINE IS LET ME I GOT THIS C. OK, HOLD ON. THOUGHT I PRINTED THE SAME THING. THANK YOU. THREE PIES. OH, YOU GOT IT. 
          NO PAGE 21. FOR THOSE. AH, THERE IT IS. OK, OK COMMERCIAL USES. UH OVER 4000 SQUARE FEET WILL BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE OFF STREET PARKING UNDER THE FOLLOWING STANDARDS. A MINIMUM OF 50% OF ALL REQUIRED PARKING IN ACCORDANCE WITH ARTICLE FIVE USE CHARTS. OF THIS OR ORDINANCE SHALL BE LOCATED ON SITE AS REQUIRED BY SPECIFIC USE. ALL ONSET PARKING SHALL BE PLACED A MINIMUM OF 10 FT. BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE. OF THE BUILDING WITH THE LANDSCAPE BUFFER PROVIDED NUMBER TWO ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS FOR DRIVEWAYS AND PARKING SPACES. MAY INCLUDE PAVE STONE GRASS, PAVERS OR OTHER MATERIALS SUBJECT TO APPROVAL OF THE CITY ENGINEER. OK? YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ THE OTHER PART. WE'LL GET THERE. I DON'T EVEN KNOW. UM SO THIS NUMBER TWO THE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS. I WANNA KEEP THAT IN THERE BECAUSE, I, I THINK THERE WILL BE INSTANCES WHERE THERE'S PARKING THAT MAY NOT NEED TO BE CONCRETE. UM SO I THINK THAT SHOULD BE IN THERE. 
          IT'S THIS FIRST PART. WHEN WE PUT THIS IN HERE, PROBABLY PROBABLY WHEN WE CREATED THE HR C BOARD OR NO, BEFORE WE CREATED THE BOARD, BUT WHEN WE CREATE THE DISTRICT IT WAS APPROPRIATE BECAUSE IT WAS SMALL DOWNTOWN. THERE WAS JUST SMALL BUILDINGS THAT DIDN'T REQUIRE A LOT OF PARKING. BUT NOW I'M I'M JUST NOT SO SURE THAT WE NEED THIS. YEAH BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU YOU COULD MEET IT ON SOME OF THOSE BUILDINGS, EITHER. I THINK IT'S MAYBE IN JASON. PLEASE CHIME IN IF YOU IF YOU HAVE AN OPINION, UM I MEAN TO ME, IT'S ALMOST BETTER TO JUST GET RID OF IT ALTOGETHER AND THE PARKING IS BASED ON WHATEVER THE USE, CHART SAYS. AND IF THERE IS A ONE OFF OR A BUSINESS THAT'S COMING IN, AND YOU KNOW IT'S A TWO MAN OFFICE AND THEY DON'T NEED ALL THAT PARKING WHEN THEY BRING THEIR PLANS IN. MAYBE THEY ASK FOR A VARIANCE OR SOMETHING, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THIS STATEMENT. DOES ANYTHING RIGHT NOW? SO CONFUSE US ON TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HOW TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT. BUT I WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? I THINK IT'S IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE ALMOST UNLESS I COULD SEE IT, LIKE REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU CAN'T THEY CAN'T MEET, AND SO THEN YOU'RE GONNA WHAT WAS THIS? WHAT WAS SAID YOU'RE GONNA STOP A BUSINESS FROM COMING INTO DOWNTOWN BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO MOVE A DOOR. IT'S KIND OF THAT THING. YOU'RE GONNA STOP A BUSINESS FROM COMING IN BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PARK 50% OF THEIR PARKING BEHIND THAT BUILDING. THERE'S NO PLACE TO PARK BEHIND THAT BUILDING. SO I WILL JUST SAY THAT UH, NATIONALLY, THERE ARE SOME CITIES. THIS IS KIND OF A TREND NOW, AND THIS IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT MS ALI IS SAYING. IS THAT THERE ARE NO PARKING REQUIREMENTS. AND IF I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT, BECAUSE TEXAS IS SO CAR CENTRIC. BUT IF WE WERE GOING TO TEST THAT SORT OF THING, AND HERE, IT ALL IT DOWNTOWN WOULD BE OK AND THAT A BUSINESS WOULD GO IN. AND IF THEY KNOW THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF CUSTOMERS THEY'LL PROVIDE THE PARKING AND IF THEY DON'T THINK THAT THERE ARE THEY THINK THAT THEIR CUSTOMERS WILL WALK A LITTLE BIT. THEN THEY'RE NOT GONNA WORRY ABOUT IT, AND WE DO HAVE A LOT OF PARKING DOWNTOWN. BUT I YOU KNOW? THAT'S OPENING UP AN INTERESTING CONVERSATION, SO I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S THE RIGHT SOLUTION. I'M JUST OFFERING A DIFFERENT OPTION. WELL THAT MAKES ME THINK BACK TO AGAIN. WHAT DOES THIS BOARD WANNA SEE? WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE DOWNTOWN? IF WE WANT IT TO BE MORE, BE WALKABLE. DO WE CARE THAT IF I'M GOING TO THIS BUSINESS THAT'S ON THE CORNER OF OAK AND MARBLE. IS IT NECESSARY THAT I PARK AT THE CORNER OF MARKET MARK EVER. THERE COULD BE A PARKING LOT DOWNTOWN. I MEAN, 
          [01:20:01]
DESIRE IT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY. AND HOW BAD DO YOU WANT TO GO TO THAT BUSINESS? THEY'RE GONNA WALK A BLOCK IF YOU HAVE TO. THAT'S EXACTLY HOW I THINK BECAUSE DOWNTOWN IS DIFFERENT IT IF YOU WANT DOWNTOWN TO BE A DESTINATION YOU BRING YOU GIVE A REASON FOR PEOPLE TO COME DOWN THERE. IF I WANNA GO TO BALLOT STREET CAFE, AND EVERY SINGLE PARKING SPOT IS FULL. I'M NOT GONNA CARE THAT I HAVE TO GO PARK ON OAK BECAUSE I WANNA GO TO BALLARD. SO TO ME, I, I KINDA LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT MAYBE. LIKE HOW WE I THINK WE DID IT. ON SOME USE, WHERE IT JUST SAYS, BASED ON SITE PLAN, OR BASED ON APPLICATION OR BECAUSE WE HAVE TO WORRY MORE ABOUT IF YOU IF YOU HAVE ALL THIS PARKING AND NO DESTINATION, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH PARKING YOU HAVE. YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A LOT GETTING YOUR BUSINESSES IN PEOPLE GONNA FIGURE OUT WHERE TO PARK IF THEY WANNA COME BACK NOW , EXACTLY, AND THERE'S JUST NOT THE REAL ESTATE. I MEAN, IT JUST ISN'T THE REAL ESTATE IN DOWNTOWN TO PROVIDE PARKING RIGHT. THAT IS COMPLIANT WITH THIS. AND YOU KNOW IF IT WAS POSSIBLE FOR ■THE CITY OF PICK P ANOTHER CHUNK OF REAL ESTATE NEAR NEAR DOWNTOWN OR IN DOWNTOWN. TO MAKE AN ADDITIONAL PARKING LOT. THAT WOULD BE GREAT. I GUESS THE ONLY THING THAT I THINK WOULD BE IMPORTANT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR HANDICAPPED PEOPLE HAVE SOME HAVE A SPACE. WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS EVERYBODY ELSE. ABLE BODIED PEOPLE CAN WALK, YOU MIGHT NEED TO WALK. YEAH. WHAT IS THE WHAT IS THE REQUIREMENT FOR HANDICAP LIKE 11 HANDICAPPED SPACE FOR EVERY 25 REQUIRED SPACES? BUT IF THERE'S NO REQUIRED, THEN KIND OF WHAT'S THAT? YOU'RE GOING TO SAY AT LEAST WELL, YOU HAVE TO. I'D SAY AT LEAST ONE DEPENDING ON IF YOUR BUSINESS IS NOT A PRIVATE BUSINESS THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, ONLY MEMBERS COME IN, OR WHATEVER. THEN YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE A HANDICAP SPACE SO MANY FEET AWAY FROM THE DOOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND I WANT TO SAY JACKSON RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET TO ENWOOD BANK. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY EVER DID IT, BUT WE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT PUTTING WHERE FOR THAT PARTICULAR USE. THERE WOULD BE A SPACE ON STREET PARKING THAT IS HANDICAPPED. IT'S IN FRONT OF THE CITY PARK. THERE'S A COUPLE OF PARALLEL SPACES THAT ARE MARKED SO IF THERE ARE WAYS TO HANDLE THAT COMMISSION'S WISH IS TO THINK ABOUT DOING AWAY WITH PARK REQUIRED PARKING I'LL DIG INTO THE FEDERAL LAW AND FIND OUT WHAT HANDICAPPED SPACES ARE. WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S PART OF THIS. I MEAN, I I'M OPEN TO THAT. I'M OPEN TO MAKING IT. EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO JUST PARK. THOSE ABLE BODIED PEOPLE LET THEM WALK, BUT I DO WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE SENSITIVE TO PROVIDING SOME SPACE FOR HANDICAPPED PEOPLE. UH, YOU KNOW, CLOSE TO WHEREVER THEY NEED TO BE. WELL, I DON'T WANT TO BE IT'S NOT FINALIZED BY ANY MEANS. BUT THE INITIAL DESIGNS THAT WE'VE SEEN FOR DOWNTOWN. 
          THESE ARE VERY PRELIMINARY AT THIS POINT IS ON STREET PARKING IS GOING TO BE MORE OF A THING THAN IT CURRENTLY IS. THE STREETS WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THEY CURRENTLY ARE. ALL RIGHT, SO WE ARE STRIKING THAT I WANT TO SAY ON A POSITIVE SIDE, I THINK THAT BY KIND OF DOING AWAY WITH LIKE THE PARKING SITUATION, IT WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO WALK MORE . BUT ALSO HOW MANY BUSINESSES ARE PEOPLE GONNA WALK BY THAT THEY WOULDN'T NORMALLY SEE. AND SO NOW IT'S GONNA PICK UP YOU KNOW FOR EVERYBODY IN THE AREA, AND SO YOU KNOW, IT COULD COULD HELP. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE MISSING, JUST PARKING IN FRONT OF THIS PLACE ALL THE TIME. WE HAD LIVED IN WILEY FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS. UM, AND WE ENDED UP DOWNTOWN FOR A PARADE FOR ONE OF MY KIDS THINGS. UM BUT WE HAD NEVER BEEN DOWNTOWN BEFORE AND GOING DOWN THERE AND, YOU KNOW, HEY, LET'S GO GET ICE CREAM. SO WE END UP GOING TO THE ICE CREAM. BUT WALKING TO THAT LITTLE ICE CREAM PLACE ALL THE THINGS THAT WE'VE SEEN ON THE WAY. WELL NOW WE GO DOWNTOWN 3 TO 4 DAYS A WEEK, AND WE HADN'T DONE THAT BEFORE. YEAH THAT'S JUST AMAZING. WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW DOWN THERE, OK, WE'LL WORK ON THAT. ALL RIGHT, AND I DON'T NEED TO READ 345. OK THAT'S ALL COMING REWORKED, OK? OH, I SEE THE NUMBERS ON THESE PAGES. SO WE'RE GOING TO THE NEXT THING THAT'S BLUE. ON PAGE 24. UH, THIS HAS TO DO WITH STREET FACADE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES. 
          AT A NUMBER SIX. GO SO TO ME, THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT MISS HERNANDEZ WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT 
          [01:25:02]
THAT SHE LOOKED IN THE ORDINANCE AND THEN SAID PICK ONE OR TWO OF THESE BUT IF YOU READ THE PARAGRAPH BEFORE IT, I THINK IT ADDRESSES WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT, UM, BECAUSE IT SAYS RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT SHALL HAVE IDENTIFIABLE FEATURES APPROPRIATE TO THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THE BUILDING. SO YOU KNOW YOU GET OVER HERE AND IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, SKIRTING. WELL IF THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF YOUR BUILDING DIDN'T REQUIRE SKIRTING, THEN THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU. OR VICE VERSA. IF YOU'RE SAYING WELL, I DON'T WANNA PICK SKIRTING WELL, BUT IF THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE THAT YOU SELECTED AND IT REQUIRES LEARNING SO, I, I THINK MAYBE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PREVIOUS, UM, DISCUSSION? THEIR HER ARCHITECT MAY HAVE LOOKED AT THE ORDINANCE. BUT DIDN'T LOOK AT THE FULL ORDINANCE. YOU KNOW THAT. THERE ARE SOME PLACES IN HERE THAT CLEARLY. IF YOU UNDERSTAND HOW HISTORICAL DESIGN WORKS, AND WE CLEARLY BASED ON THE LAST TIME WE MADE AMENDMENTS WE CLEARLY PUT IN THERE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE, SO EVERYTHING WOULD TIE BACK TO AN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. ALL RIGHT. 
          SO A LOT OF THIS THAT'S IN BLUE. WE TOOK FROM THAT SECTION OF EN ENCOURAGE AND ALL THAT STUFF. 
          SOME OF THAT. IS IN HERE. SO IT'S MORE OF A GOING BACK TO THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE THAT YOU'RE YOU'RE SELECTED FOR YOUR HOUSE TO HEAR THAT. UM SO SIX IS ARCHITECTURAL, DETAILING OF GABLES WINDOW AND DOOR CASINGS, EVE LINES AND, UH AND FOUNDATIONS. SEVEN IS USE OF SKIRTING ALONG THE BASE OF THE BUILDING IN A MANNER APPROPRIATE TO THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN OF THE BUILDING. SKIRTING MATERIAL SHALL BE DURABLE, SUITABLE FOR EXTERIOR EXPOSURE AND INSTALLED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS. SKIRTING SHALL BE SECURE AS NECESSARY TO ENSURE STABILITY TO MINIMIZE VIBRATIONS OR SUBS SUSCEPTIBILITY TO WIND DAMAGE. OR EIGHT USE A FOUNDATION PLANTINGS TO SOFTEN AND CONCEAL THE FOUNDATION. HOW TO HOW DO WE? HOW DOES OUR CONTROL COME IN THERE WITH THE PLANTINGS AGAIN? HAVING STUFF IN THERE JUST TO HAVE IT IN THERE. SO NOW THAT IT WOULD BE PART OF THIS ORDINANCE, UM WE CAN SEND CODE ENFORCEMENT OUT AND ACTUALLY WRITE. DO? UH, ZONING. VIOLATION IF IT'S IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. BEFORE WE COULDN'T BECAUSE THERE WAS NO BUT IF IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE AGREEMENT WHEN THE SOMETHING WAS APPROVED, WHY ISN'T IT THAT ENFORCEABLE? I DON'T I DON'T THINK IT'S ENFORCEABLE BECAUSE IT CAN BE ENFORCED WHEN IT'S DEVELOPED WHEN IT'S BUILT WHEN IT'S DONE, BUT THERE IS NOTHING. IT COULD DIE, AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO FORCE THEM TO REPLACE IT. I MEAN, EVEN IN OUR REGULAR ORDINANCES, AND I REMEMBER THIS AGAIN YEARS AGO, MAN. I'VE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME. YEARS AGO, NOT ON THE HRC BOARD, BUT WE WERE TALKING THROUGH PNZ AND COUNCIL WANTED TO REWRITE JUST THE REGULAR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES EVERY NEW HOME. EVERY NEW DEVELOPER PUT IN TO NUTRI, TWO TREES AND FIVE BUSHES. AND TO PUT LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT IT HAD TO BE MAINTAINED FOREVER. AND THEY DIDN'T WANNA DO THAT. 
          SO TECHNICALLY ANYBODY RIGHT NOW ? YOU WHEN YOUR HOUSE IS BUILT, THEY'RE GONNA PUT IN TWO TREES. 
          FIVE SHRUBS. THE DAY YOU CLOSE ON YOUR HOUSE. YOU CAN GO IN THERE AND RIP IT ALL OUT AND UNLESS YOU'RE A COMES IN ON YOUR DOOR. YOU'RE IN A HO A. BUT THEN I THINK JASON WASN'T THERE SOMETHING IN THIS LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION ABOUT LANDSCAPING THAT WE COULD NOT ENFORCE. YEAH, THERE'S BEEN SOME CHANGES, AND WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THOSE RIGHT NOW. SO WE NEED TO TAKE ANYTHING ABOUT A LAND. AGAIN I. I JUST DON'T WANT SOMETHING IN THAT IF I CAN'T ENFORCE IT. SO YOU DON'T YOU DON'T EVEN WANT IT IN THERE. FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. I THINK WE SHOULD BECAUSE HERE'S THE THING EVEN IF IT DIES, AND THEY DID THEY RIP IT OUT ALL OF THAT. BUT LIKE IF SHE BUILDS HER HOUSE, AND IT'S ON A SLAB FOUNDATION, SHE DOESN'T PUT ANYTHING UP TO THAT UP UP TO COVER THAT UP TO ME, IT IT DOESN'T LOOK THAT GREAT, RIGHT, I. I JUST WANT THINGS THAT WE CAN ENFORCE IF WE CAN'T ENFORCE IT. WHAT'S THE POINT OF IT BEING THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE? WHY CAN'T WE ENFORCE IT? IF WE CAN ENFORCE, LIKE, GRASPING CUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU CAN'T HAVE A HAY FIELD IN YOUR FRONT YARD AND DISTRICT, RIGHT? YOU SEND OUT COMPLIANCE 
          [01:30:05]
AND THEY ENFORCE IT. BUT WE ONLY THE ONLY THING IS IF AND THIS IS OPENING A HUGE CAN OF WORMS. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY SPECIFIC. YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU'RE GETTING INTO HOW BIG DOES IT HAVE TO BE? HOW TALL CAN IT BE? WHAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW AND JUST AS THE WAY IT'S WORDED. I AGREE WITH MS ALI. I SPOKE TOO SOON A LITTLE BIT, SO THE USE OF FOUNDATION PLANS TO SOFTEN AND CONCEAL THE FOUNDATION. AS THAT'S WRITTEN, THAT'S NOT ENFORCEABLE AFTER THE FACT IT'S ENFORCEABLE TO APPROVE IT INITIALLY. BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO INTO SO MUCH MORE DETAIL. TO ENFORCE THAT AFTER THE FACT THAT I THINK IT WOULD BE ALMOST UNWIELDY. I MEAN, BUT COULD WE SAY SOMETHING THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE SKIRTING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF VEGETATION THAT COVERS A SLAB FOUNDATION. YOU ARE GETTING INTO YOU WOULD BE GETTING SUCH AN ISSUE, LIKE OK, WELL, WHAT KIND OF VEGETATION THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE AN APPROVED LIST. THEN HOW BIG CAN IT BE? IF IT GOES UP TO THE WINDOW NOW, IS IT YOU KNOW IF SOMEBODY DECIDES TO USE MONKEY GRASS BECAUSE OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE SAYS 12 INCHES NOW, IS THAT EXEMPT FROM? I MEAN, IT'S I MEAN, IN THEORY, YES, IN PRACTICE. I DON'T THINK IT'S POSSIBLE. I GET THAT. SO I THINK THE ONLY THING WE WOULD HAVE TO BE IS TO HAVE TO BE SKIRTING. ARE WE WOULD JUST HAVE TO BE OK WITH THEM. NOT HAVING ANYTHING TO CONCEAL A FOUNDATION. WE'LL LOOK AT THIS, AND I'LL ALSO LOOK AT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE TO SEE WHAT KIND OF LANGUAGE WAS ADDRESSED ON A LANDSCAPING. A AGAIN I JUST WANT SOMETHING THAT I CAN ENFORCE OR NOT ENFORCE, BECAUSE I'M IF I'M GOING TO MAKE MY DECISION ON ALLOWING SOMETHING BASED ON A UM, ORDINANCE. I WANT THAT ORDINANCE TO BE ENFORCEABLE. AND, YOU KNOW , I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT SLAB BECAUSE THAT BOTHERED ME THAT I APPROVED THAT BASED ON THERE WERE GOING TO BE SHRUBS AROUND THAT TO CONCEAL IT, AND NO SHRUB EVER WENT IN NO SHRUB WENT IN AND THEN DIED. THAT WASN'T EVEN AN ISSUE. NOTHING EVER WENT IN THAT BOTHERED ME. OK? NUMBER NINE. WE DON'T NEED TO. I MEAN, IF AND IF YOU WANT THEN BY HAVING QUESTIONS OVER THE ARCHITECTURAL DETAILING. WHICH IS NUMBER NINE. TORCH RAILS. 
          NUMBER 10 CHOICE OF COLORS. IDENTIFYING FEATURES, ACCORDING TO A FIELD GUIDE TO AMERICAN HOUSES BY VIRGINIA SAVAGE MCALLISTER, OK, I DO LIKE THIS IS NEW, ISN'T IT? YES OK, I DO LIKE THAT. THE EXAMPLES THIS IS ALL NEW AND YOU KNOW, I GOT MOST OF IT FROM, UM VIRGINIA SAVAGE'S BOOK. AS WELL AS LOOKING AT OH MY GOSH. SO MANY OTHER CITIES. AND WHAT I TRIED TO DO WAS REALLY PICK OUT. THOSE STYLES OF HOUSES THAT ARE PREVALENT IN OUR DOWNTOWN. NOW THERE ARE SOME THAT AREN'T UM, I WANNA GO SEE WHAT THIS AIRPLANE BUNGALOW IS. THERE. IS IT ON, UM WHAT'S THAT LITTLE SIDE STREET THAT COMES OFF A BALLOT OVER BY THE, UH WALLY ID. CENTER. UM. I WILL SEND THIS TO YOU. BECAUSE I, I EVEN TOOK A PICTURE OF YOUR HOUSE. I DIDN'T PUT IT IN THE PACKET BECAUSE I DID USE HOUSES FROM SOME OF OUR PEOPLE, AND I DIDN'T ASK ANYBODY'S PERMISSION TO SEND IT OUT. OH, NO, IT'S IN THERE. YES BUT I JUST I DIDN'T PRINT IT OUT TO MAKE IT PART OF THE PACKET BECAUSE I DIDN'T ASK ANYBODY FOR PERMISSION. YOU LOOK LIKE A CREEP. YEAH. CREEPING ON US. BUT, UM, THAT AIRPLANE HOUSE SANDRA, YOU MAY REMEMBER. CAUSE I MAYBE. ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT. SEEMS LIKE WE BROUGHT THAT. TO THIS SPORT WHEN WE FIRST STARTED OR SOMETHING, I, I CAN'T. BUT IT'S UM WHERE IS IT? I'M GONNA SHOW YOU GUYS I CAN'T THINK OF THE NAME OF THE BIRMINGHAM IT'S ON BIRMINGHAM. UM ACROSS 78. MHM IS IT? THE CRAFTSMAN SITS ON THE RIGHT. OH, YEAH, IT'S NO STONE HOUSE. I MEAN, IT LOOKS YES, IT'S KIND OF CLOSE TO THE APARTMENT AND EVERYTHING. YEAH, YEAH. YEAH THAT'S AN AIRPLANE. THAT'S WHAT'S CALLED A AIRPLANE BUNGLE. I LOVE THAT HOUSE. YEAH, OK, SO, UM YOU KNOW, WE CAN ADD IF THERE'S OTHERS THAT YOU YOU WANNA SEE OR IF YOU THINK WE NEED TO REWORK, BECAUSE WHAT I DON'T WANT IS SOMEONE TO LOOK AT 
          [01:35:05]
THIS OR AND THINK THIS IS ALL THEY CAN DO. AND HOPEFULLY I'M KIND OF MAKE THAT CLEAR BECAUSE I THINK I STUCK IN SOME THAT THESE ARE EXAMPLES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YEAH, I THINK OK? YEAH, AND I THINK THROUGHOUT EACH ONE YOU HAVE LIKE WORDS, USUALLY IN OTHER WORDS, THAT ARE SAY THEY MOST OF THE TIME DO BUT NOT ALWAYS AND WE CAN ALSO INCLUDE PICTURES, YOU KNOW FOR ANY HOMES THAT WE WOULD INCLUDE IN HERE OF HOMES THAT ARE IN WALLY. I'LL REACH OUT TO THOSE OWNERS AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE IF YOU HAD AT LEAST ONE PICTURE OF EACH STYLE TO GIVE SOMEBODY AN EXAMPLE. OH, WHAT WE COULD DO IS JUST HAVE THAT SAMPLE BOOK NO, NOT MAKE IT PART OF THE ORDINANCE. BUT HAVE THAT SAMPLE IF YOU KNOW, UH, APPLICANT COMES AND TALKS TO US FIRST, AND WE KIND OF SIT AND SHOW IT TO HIM AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT. YEAH, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO HAVE THOSE PICTURES IN THERE BECAUSE WHAT I DON'T WANT IS I MADE MY HOUSE LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THIS HOUSE. AND GET THIS WHOLE OTHER THING AGAIN, SO I'D RATHER JUST LEAVE THE DESCRIPTION. AND THESE DESCRIPTIONS LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE MAKING THEM UP. THIS IS WHAT HAS BEEN APPROVED AND ADOPTED, AS YOU KNOW, A FEDERAL STYLE. I HAVE A COPY OF HER BOOK. I LIKE IT, BUT I'M GLAD YOU PUT THOSE IN THERE. II. I WAS REALLY PLEASED TO SEE THAT. SO UH, THE NOTE SAYS A LATER ADDITION TO AN OLD HOUSE MAY HAVE GAINED SIGNIFICANCE ON ITS OWN. DON'T ASSUME IT'S WORTHLESS JUST BECAUSE IT'S NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL BUILDING. OK FOR EXAMPLE, GREEK REVIVAL BUILDINGS BUILT BETWEEN 1830 1850 HAD PLAIN WINDOW DECORATIONS. SOME OF THESE WERE UPDATED WITH MORE ELABORATE, UH ITALIANATE WINDOW DECORATIONS IN THE 18 SEVENTIES SINCE THIS LATER DECLARATION REFLECTS THE STYLE OF ARCHITECTURE NOW OVER 100 YEARS OLD. IT TOO, HAS GAINED HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE AND ITS ARCHITECTURAL EVIDENCE WHICH TELLS US SOMETHING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE BUILDING SUCH LATER DECLARATION SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED. OK LIKE THAT. UM PAGE 27. YEAH, THIS SO THIS IS I. I YEAH. ALL THIS STUFF IS WHAT WE MOVED TO THE OTHER SECTIONS THAT WE JUST READ. WE DIDN'T TAKE IT OUT. WE JUST MOVED RIGHT, OK? WE DID TAKE OUT THE PICTURES, THOUGH. OK, BECAUSE AS MS HERNANDEZ PROVED THAT SHE LOOKED AT THIS AND SAID, HEY, I USED THOSE WINDOWS JUST LIKE WHAT'S ON HERE, BUT WELL, IT'S NOT THE ARCHITECTURE STYLE. I WAS GONNA SAY NONE OF HER WINDOWS LOOK LIKE ANY OF THESE. YEAH, THEY DO. MM MM. IT'S THAT PART RIGHT NOW. WELL, THERE'S SHUTTERS ON THAT ONE. IT'S BEAUTIFUL. LORD. 
          UM OK, PAGE 28. YOU WOULD NEED TO READ, UH, THAT'S THAT WAS MOVED TO THE OTHER SECTION. OK? I THINK THAT'S ALL EVERYTHING. OK, BUT THE PART ABOUT, UH, WHERE WHAT PAGE IS THE NEW NEW BUILD? DETACHED GARAGE ON NEW BILL. A NEW BUILD, UH, ACCESSORY BUILDING ON A NEW VIEW? 18. I THINK OK? OH, NO, 21. OH, NO, THAT'S THAT'S A NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON IT. IT'S JUST THE NEW ACCESSORIES. I'M TALKING ABOUT A NEW BILL LIKE THIS NEW HOUSE HERE. WHERE IS THAT? THAT SAYS THAT IT HAS TO BE. IT SHALL BE A DETACHED GRUDGE. IT'S NOT GOING TO SAY THAT BECAUSE IT MAY NOT BE A DETACHED GARAGE. IT DEPENDS ON THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. SO RIGHT. SO WE'RE I MEAN, BUT WHERE IS IT? WHERE? WHERE DOES IT COVER A NEW BUILD? ACCESSORY BUILDING ON A NEW BUILD. PAGE 21 II. I THINK THE CONFUSION IS EARLIER. I THINK YOU SAID THIS IS ONLY TALKING ABOUT NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ON EXISTING BUILDINGS. AND I THINK YOU'D REFERENCE MAYBE A DIFFERENT SECTION FOR OTHER, BUT THIS IS THE ONLY SECTION THAT TALKS ABOUT ACCESSORY BUILDINGS IN THIS ENTIRE OR RIGHT. WHAT IF IT'S A NEW BUILD OR AN EXISTING HOUSE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING A NEW STROKE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON EITHER ONE? THIS IS A NEW ACCESSORY. WHETHER ALL THE YEAH. ALL RIGHT, THAT'S I'M GOOD. THEN I WAS I WAS THINKING THERE WAS TWO SEPARATE NOW. OK, I'M GOOD WITH THAT, THEN. SO NO NOTHING ELSE TO COVER ON THE ORDINANCES. 
          [01:40:03]
GOOD. ALL RIGHT. I'M GONNA GET BACK TO THE CAN BEFORE YOU BECAUSE AGAIN. THIS IS OUR LAST ITEM BEFORE YOU CLOSE OUT. I JUST WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU GUYS. UM I THINK THIS WAS A VERY, VERY INFORMATIVE. CONVERSATION. WE GOT A LOT OF INFORMATION. AND THAT THE DIRECTION SO, UM I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. AND I HOPE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS MY INTENT. 
          I'M REALLY NOT TRYING TO BE A BULLY TO ANYBODY. I'M JUST REALLY I REALLY CARE ABOUT ARCHITECTURAL STYLE AND BE STAYING TRUE TO SOMETHING FOR THIS DISTRICT. IF WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD SOMETHING, I REALLY WANT TO STAY TRUE TO WHAT WE'RE WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT WILEY WILL EVER GET ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY LIKE WE HAVE RIGHT NOW TO WIDEN OUR PERIMETERS AND HAVE NEW STRUCTURES AND YOU KNOW, UNLESS THE TOWN BURNS AGAIN WE DON'T WANT THAT. AND WELL, I'M JUST SAYING, I'M JUST SAYING, NO, I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT. UH, BUT I'M JUST MY INTENT REALLY IS NOT TO BE MEAN TO ANYBODY. I JUST IF I BOUGHT A PIECE OF PROPERTY I'M GOING BEFORE I BUY THAT PROPERTY . I'M GONNA KNOW WHAT I CAN BUILD ON IT AND CAN'T BUILD ON IT. I'M NOT GOING TO BUY AND EXPECT EVERYBODY TO CHANGE THINGS FOR ME. I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE. BUT THAT'S YOU THAT THAT IS ME. EVERYBODY ELSE TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO. NO, NO, NO, NO, I'M I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU'RE ALREADY BUT FOR ME AND JASON THE REASON WE TRY TO SPEND SO MUCH TIME ON THIS IS NOT AND I ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE ORDINANCES AREN'T WRITTEN, WRITTEN FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ABIDE BY THE RULES. THAT'S TRUE. THEY'RE WRITTEN FOR THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T AND I'M NOT SAYING WHAT THEIR REASON IS THAT THEY DON'T THEY MAY JUST NOT KNOW OR THEY DON'T DO THE DUE DILIGENCE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY OUR JOB BECAUSE YOU ALL WOULD BE SURPRISED IN OUR CONVERSATIONS BEFORE IT EVEN GETS TO YOU. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT PROPERTY OWNER THE RIGHT TO BRING TO YOU WHATEVER THEY WANT, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF WHAT CONVERSATIONS WE MAY HAVE WITH THEM. I AGREE. I WAS LIKE, JASON , WHERE AM I LOOKING AT AN ATTACHED GARAGE DEAL. WELL, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO, I DO THINK. 
          IT'S TOUGH TO BE IN YOUR POSITION BECAUSE AS MUCH AS WE'RE OPINIONATED ABOUT IT, YOU'RE THE MIDDLE MAN. SPEAK TO THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO WALK THAT LINE, SO I GET THAT AND TO BE FAIR. THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAD A WORK SESSION TONIGHT BECAUSE I GOT TO APPOINTED MISS ALL I GOT TO A POINT WHERE WE COULDN'T HELP HER ANYMORE. YOU KNOW, WE GAVE HER WHAT OUR OPINION WAS, AND I WAS LIKE, I THINK SHE JUST HAS TO HEAR IT FROM THE COMMISSION. YOU KNOW, UH, FROM THE FROM THE MEMBERS ABOUT WHAT THERE ARE WHAT THE EXPECTATION IS. AND ALSO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M EXCITED ABOUT IS LIKE JUST THE DOWNTOWN, THE REVITALIZATION AND THE CHANGES THAT ARE GOING TO MAKE, AND I THINK THE ORDINANCES THAT WE'RE DOING NOW IT'S GONNA MATCH . I THINK WELL WHEN THE CHANGES DOWNTOWN AND OVERALL IMPROVE DOWNTOWN FOR EVERYBODY. I THINK THAT'S IT. UH, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. I MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. I'LL SECOND THE MOTION. OK, CAST YOUR VOTE. MARY SAY, CAN WE PAUSE THIS MEETING? STOP! STOP THIS MEETING. I LIKE I'VE EVER SEEN THAT BEFORE.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.